What a STUPID 4th place...what should have I done?

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
limp?

how is that enticing - an Ace hits, what do you do? push maybe?

A jack hits, what do you do?

hmmm, an AKJ hits - now what do you do?

Limping is rubbish, why waste your chips

if the big stack has anyting about him and the flop is rags he will bet and you still might have the winning hand (ignoring this particular case)

Definately don't limp, thats worse than folding IMHO

Cheers

Damian

[/ QUOTE ]

I think playing postflop (limping) is only rubbish if you have 0 reads on your opponents and don't know how to play postflop.

>>>ZIP

[adanthar]

What the hell is going on in this thread? It's like the last six months and ICM never happened.

As to the hand, since it's a low buyin, raising to 500 and folding to a push or just plain limp/folding (while trying to get the short stack to push) are both fine. In a 109, I'd push since big stack isn't calling me without those nines.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
limp?

how is that enticing - an Ace hits, what do you do? push maybe?

A jack hits, what do you do?

hmmm, an AKJ hits - now what do you do?

Limping is rubbish, why waste your chips

if the big stack has anyting about him and the flop is rags he will bet and you still might have the winning hand (ignoring this particular case)

Definately don't limp, thats worse than folding IMHO

Cheers

Damian

[/ QUOTE ]

I think playing postflop (limping) is only rubbish if you have 0 reads on your opponents and don't know how to play postflop.

>>>ZIP

[/ QUOTE ]

[ilya]

This is a clear fold with these blinds, but that guy with AK made a horrible call. He had an even clearer fold.

[Klak]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a clear fold with these blinds, but that guy with AK made a horrible call. He had an even clearer fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for putting this in prospective for these people. lol

[UVaHoo]

I'm amazed at the number of people saying that they'd fold/limp/raise to 3x bb. To me, this is a clear raise or fold. If you limp, you take a good hand and risk losing your chips to a crappy hand or being pushed around by the bb. Your M is only 6, and your effective M is even less.

I think the calling range used for the calculations is far, far too loose. Yes, it's a low buy-in. However, at low buy-ins, people seem (to me) to play even tighter on the bubble than normal, because they're weak players. They don't understand that being aggressive on the bubble is the way to win tournaments. You have a top 10% hand, and happened to run into a bigger hand...like others have said, tough luck.

Folding hands like this while waiting for the short stack to bust out is a good way to get lots of 3rd place finishes when you get ITM with no stack remaining.

Maybe I'm too aggressive, but to me this is a push every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[BadMongo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the calling range used for the calculations is far, far too loose.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fine, you are free to disagree with me, but I've played thousands of low buy-in SNGs and I think this range is pretty accurate for a donk with a big stack. You can go ahead and tighten it if you want, it barely makes a difference in this case because the blinds are so small. For example, if you were to tighten ALL THREE of the other players' ranges to the top 10% only (55+, ATo+, A8s+, KQs), your EV for pushing is -0.3%.

[ QUOTE ]
Folding hands like this while waiting for the short stack to bust out is a good way to get lots of 3rd place finishes when you get ITM with no stack remaining.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, folding hands like this is a good way to increase your ROI.

[ QUOTE ]
to me this is a push every day of the week and twice on Sunday

[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you should reconsider your position then [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Klak]

good luck with those 3rd places. you will never win a tournament if you fold here 100%. the ev calculations are so close that they dont really matter.

the fact is, you are not likely to see a better hand than this for a long time and this is a good chance to try to pick up the blinds. pushing accomplishes this the best.

so you fold every hand on the bubble other than AA, KK, or AK? i dont get it.

[ilya]

I don't think I really made this clear in my first post. Pushing here is not good. You have a healthy stack and the push is only marginally profitable even if all 3 of your opponents are quite tight. All this "playing for 1sts" nonsense needs to stop, it's meaningless. OBVIOUSLY AJo is a very strong hand 4-handed, but hand value is just one among many considerations on the bubble.

You should have folded, IC5.

[vabogee]

even if you put the two other large stacks calling range at 'super tight' (like JJ+, ATs+, AJ+), it's a marginal push at best (+.5%).

basically, fold if you like money.