A WSOP Main Event Hand

[burningyen]

Ouch, man. I probably would have folded at 11am and called at 2am.

[SossMan]

wow, he played that pretty badly with the exception of the river bet.

[MLG]

In my mind this is a clear check behind situation. A lot of times in this forum we get so fixated on protecting ourselves gainst draws that we forget there are all sorts of other things to worry about also. The thing is any bet that protects you sufficiently from a drawing hand is going to make it very very hard for you to fold the river, and a push only gets called by hands that have you pretty crushed. Combine that with the fact that checking behind here might inspire a river bluff from a missed flush draw, or a bad bet from a worse K or something and I like to excercise pot control here.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
In my mind this is a clear check behind situation. A lot of times in this forum we get so fixated on protecting ourselves gainst draws that we forget there are all sorts of other things to worry about also. The thing is any bet that protects you sufficiently from a drawing hand is going to make it very very hard for you to fold the river, and a push only gets called by hands that have you pretty crushed. Combine that with the fact that checking behind here might inspire a river bluff from a missed flush draw, or a bad bet from a worse K or something and I like to excercise pot control here.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha, i win.

[ansky451]

[ QUOTE ]
In my mind this is a clear check behind situation. A lot of times in this forum we get so fixated on protecting ourselves gainst draws that we forget there are all sorts of other things to worry about also. The thing is any bet that protects you sufficiently from a drawing hand is going to make it very very hard for you to fold the river, and a push only gets called by hands that have you pretty crushed. Combine that with the fact that checking behind here might inspire a river bluff from a missed flush draw, or a bad bet from a worse K or something and I like to excercise pot control here.

[/ QUOTE ]

word.

[Double Eagle]

And the last time you two disagreed on a line was....?????

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
I check behind on the turn. I know that I give him a free card, but that only hurts me if
A) he has a lone heart and
B) he doesn't already have me beat and
C) the river comes a heart or

D) he bluffs me off a non-river heart after I check the turn

I want a cheap showdown here, and he will be hard pressed to make a bet with worse hand on the river that I can't call.

I want to keep the pot small, and if that means not reopening the action so that he can semibluff something like AhTx on the turn, then so be it.

Get me to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting hand. I am with Soss on this one. Top pair, weak kicker, on a single-suited flop, is not a situation where you want to gamble most of your chips if you can help it.

The OP did a nice analysis of the various possibilities but one piece of equity he didn't account for is when you pick off a bluff on the river. Also, he is unable to bluff at a heart on the river because you could easily be on the heart draw as well, and thus you can fold with a clear conscience if the 4th heart comes.

By the way, it's true that pushing the turn might get KQ to fold, but if he's going to play KQ that way when a king flops, he shouldn't have even called with it. In my world KQ definitely bets out or check-raises on the flop.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
And the last time you two disagreed on a line was....?????

[/ QUOTE ]

1987

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]
In my mind this is a clear check behind situation. A lot of times in this forum we get so fixated on protecting ourselves gainst draws that we forget there are all sorts of other things to worry about also. The thing is any bet that protects you sufficiently from a drawing hand is going to make it very very hard for you to fold the river, and a push only gets called by hands that have you pretty crushed. Combine that with the fact that checking behind here might inspire a river bluff from a missed flush draw, or a bad bet from a worse K or something and I like to excercise pot control here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on checking behind;

I think it's important to add:

I also don't want to be giving myself the high variance line here for little equity; the little equity can be seen in all the disagreements among good players here.

If he has a flush draw so what, everyone keeps on screaming 'it's a huge mistake to let him draw for free' eff that, it's a 1/5 of pot mistake before you even factor in the price you cost yourself when:

you bet and with his As,xo draw he checkraises you all in and you fold the best hand.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In my mind this is a clear check behind situation. A lot of times in this forum we get so fixated on protecting ourselves gainst draws that we forget there are all sorts of other things to worry about also. The thing is any bet that protects you sufficiently from a drawing hand is going to make it very very hard for you to fold the river, and a push only gets called by hands that have you pretty crushed. Combine that with the fact that checking behind here might inspire a river bluff from a missed flush draw, or a bad bet from a worse K or something and I like to excercise pot control here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on checking behind;

I think it's important to add:

I also don't want to be giving myself the high variance line here for little equity; the little equity can be seen in all the disagreements among good players here.

If he has a flush draw so what, everyone keeps on screaming 'it's a huge mistake to let him draw for free' eff that, it's a 1/5 of pot mistake before you even factor in the price you cost yourself when:

you bet and with his As,xo draw he checkraises you all in and you fold the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


exactly.