Multiculturalism. Is it suicide?

[SheetWise]

ACPlayer-

I posted a number of Qur’an verses and teachings yesterday -- here they are again. See if you can provide a reasonable 'context', or a 'non-extremist interpretation'.

Good luck.

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Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.”


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Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”


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Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”


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Qur’an 66:1 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”


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Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”


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Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.”


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Qur’an 72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”


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Qur’an 2:64 “But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you.”


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Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”


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Tabari VIII:130 “The Messenger said, ‘Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.’ Umar investigated the matter, then sent to the Jews, saying: ‘Allah has given permission for you to be expelled.”


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[[censored]]

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60 years ago is not ancient history. And you ARE living in the time of the last three conflicts.

My minutes at the library are up.

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I assumed you were not really trying to link wars like WW1, WW2 & veitnam to Christianitity. I don't mind debating with people who do not share my beliefs but I prefer to keep it within the realms of reality.

[SheetWise]

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I seem to recall something about glass houses that seems particularly relevant in this thread.


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Except that people who practice Christianity and Judaism have assimilated into the modern world, and condemn many of the practices in their history. As I recall, the Bible reports many atrocities -- I don't recall it advocating them.

[MMMMMM]

fluxrad, I have provided numerous posts on this board, showing that that Islam is inherently more aggressive, violent and intolerant towards others than are any other major religions.

I am not going to do it all again right NOW.

However I probably will try to summarize things in a future new thread at some point.

Part of the problem (not a bad problem) is that new people continually come to this board and get into discussions, whereas I have posted here since at least 1999. Not saying that to call seniority, but rather to point out the difficulty of trying to summarize things long since discussed, especially complex things.

All you have to do is read the Koran yourself and you will see the numerous injunctions to Muslims to attack, subjugate, kill and terrorize non-Muslims. Also you might try looking at the history of Mohammed's life, then comparing it to Jesus' life.

Night and day.

That is not to say that both Muslims and Christians have not both done some terribly evil things in the names of their religions. However Islam literally enjoins them to violence whereas Christianity (the teachings of Jesus) espouses non-violence.

[SheetWise]

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Islam, as much as I've ever heard, says you must only declare war on those who would seek to oppress Islam. Not those who would live in peace as your neighbor.


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Those who would live in peace must live in Dhimmitude . You can see Europe adapting already ...

[SheetWise]

It is a problem in the western world, and has been a problem all over the world. You're just not going to see it unless you follow it.

They've done a great job of promoting the 'religion of peace'. And nazis wanted to 'help' the jews ...

[MMMMMM]

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Funny, then, that every Islamic scholar in the western world would disagree with you. Islam, as much as I've ever heard, says you must only declare war on those who would seek to oppress Islam. Not those who would live in peace as your neighbor.

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OK--you must try to understand, the Islamic definition of certain terms is quite different than the Western definition. I will give you an example:

The Islamic definition of "peace" is living under the laws of Islam with your neighhbor, both submitting to Allah's will.

Under Islamic ideology, the world is divided into Dar al-Islam (the House of Peace) and Dar al-Harb (the House of War). The part of the world living under Islamic rule is considered at peace, while the rest of the world is considered at war (against Allah's will).

Dar al-Islam is in constant struggle with Dar al-Harb, until the day that Dar al-Harb will also submit to Allah's will, and the entire world will then be at peace, under Allah, living as He commanded men to live in the Koran.

Another example: the Islamic definition of oppressing Islam is resisting its spread or its preeminence as the only true religion.

If you read more about Islam, what *Muslim* scholars or imams have to say, you will get a better perspective on things like this.

Or you might try www.secularislam.org , which is a very interesting and informative site.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Multiple cultures exist on the globe and will continue to do so. Many of the cultures will claim moral superiority. What is most dangerous? The cultures blending together or staying on eachothers turf?

I think blending is healthier, if Bush and Osama would grow up in the same street I think both 9/11 and Iraq war would be much less unlikely. Comments?

[ACPlayer]

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Islam may not be the root cause but currently in the middle east it is being used to justify and prompt such action

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Islam is not the root cause. Once we get beyond that we need to dif to find why its use in some parts of the world is being bought into by otherwise, apparently, intelligent young people. What emotion, what desires are allowing the extremists like Bin Ladin to find college educated young men in their prime of their lives to commit suicide. Why citizens of these lands (we now recognize that their being muslim is ancillary to the analysis) are willing to support the suicide bombers in these large numbers.

Bigots have made Islam the root cause of the suicide bombers. With this comment you have shown that you are on the right track now take the next step. The emotions of these people would be the same even if they were not muslim and they would likely have been willing act if given some cover by their extremist leaders.

Islam is NOT the problem (even if it were a violent, intolerant religion which of course it is not) that leads to the terrorist attacks.

[ACPlayer]

The door is now ajar (perhaps).

You seem to atleast accept that Islam is not the root of terrorist attacks. Now you need to understand that extremist interpreations of Islam is being used as a tool.

We need to focus on the cause not the tool. Focus on the tool leads us down the path of irrational and intolerant behaviours on our path.

I hope you keep trying to open that (now partially ajar) door in your mind. Attagirl! You have my blessing -- may Allah be with you in this endeavour.