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#31
07-13-2005, 05:27 PM
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Re: Confusing 1010 hand.. thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Against a random player your are beat 80% of the time here. Barring a read I fold the turn or maybe even the flop minraise. [/ QUOTE ] im sorry but i feel obliged to ask, where do you come up with yer 80% number? holla [/ QUOTE ] Well obviously it is an estimate based on a possible range (70% is probably more accurate... still a fold though). I know from NL200 that a minraise on the flop and a half pot bet bet on the turn is normally a big hand. Hear is my range based on his play: 5%AK 10% 88 15% 99 1% 1010 40% JJ 15% QQ-AA 14% A7 
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#32
07-13-2005, 05:29 PM
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Re: Confusing 1010 hand.. thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
microbet67 [/ QUOTE ] how would skipperbob do his????? skipperbob89? or would it be skipperbob1789? I digress
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#33
07-13-2005, 05:32 PM
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Re: Confusing 1010 hand.. thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i check/call all the way down and prolly fold to a push. [/ QUOTE ] I really really hate this line here. It's so expensive, you never find out where your at, you don't define your hand and give the villian tons of incentive to try to bluff you off with overs. AND your giving two basically free cards at what could easily be 6 outs or more and you don't know which cards hurt you by not betting. [/ QUOTE ] i agree check calling the whole way is atrocious. holla
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#34
07-13-2005, 05:32 PM
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Re: Confusing 1010 hand.. thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If you don't buy it that he has you beat you should obviously go for the checkraise turn as you did (unless an Ace comes off). [/ QUOTE ] Hey Apathy, Why C/R the turn over just pushing? Seems to me that checking lets Villain either check (not good) or push. (not good) He happened to make a dumb move here (if on the draw) but aren't most players likely to either take a free card or really put Raptor to the test by shoving? [/ QUOTE ] Well checking behind isnt so bad actually since it really tells you where the villians at, then you can check and call on most rivers, confident you have the best hand, while folding on some scary ones. The reason you want to check in this spot is because after the villian min raises you they are quite likely to bet again unimproved anyways, but if you push they will likley only call you with hands that beat you in this spot. Don't be so concerned about having to call for all your chips if they push because they can have a wider range of hands by pushing first after you check, making you more likely to be well ahead and double up, rather then just take the smaller pot. If that doesn't make sense let me know on msn or something.
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#35
07-13-2005, 05:47 PM
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Re: Confusing 1010 hand.. thoughts?
Makes sense and I'm sure it goes that way a fair amount of the time. But, from Boreon point of view, when you call the reraise he's gonna have to wonder what the heck you have. He could put you on a monster and then be unwilling to make that bluff. If the next card is a spade, you will be scared of him and he will be scared of you and if it is an A, K or Q you will be scared of him.
So, in many cases it will be hard to get paid when you are ahead. That's in addition to giving another card to someone who most likely has more outs than you. I favor folding the flop - then pushing the flop after that. I don't think the correct answer can be reasoned out though. It would take a ton of data to figure out what is best. Lacking that, I will certainly listen to the collective wisdom of a bunch of kids who have played 4378929743897312974 hands of poker.
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#36
07-13-2005, 06:54 PM
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Re: Confusing 1010 hand.. thoughts?
ok, results time.. he pushed, he called with J7 of clubs and my TT held up. im not saying i played the hand correctly, this guy is awful though.. and i really wasnt sure what to do the whole hand. i really didnt think he was strong at all, so thats why i made the play. and yes, i would have posted this hand if he had AA and i lost, to get some thoughts. holla
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#37
07-13-2005, 07:00 PM
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Re: Confusing 1010 hand.. thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
ok, results time.. he pushed, he called with J7 of clubs and my TT held up. im not saying i played the hand correctly, this guy is awful though.. and i really wasnt sure what to do the whole hand. i really didnt think he was strong at all, so thats why i made the play. and yes, i would have posted this hand if he had AA and i lost, to get some thoughts. holla [/ QUOTE ] I think this is an example of http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...mp;o=&vc=1
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#38
07-13-2005, 07:09 PM
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Re: Confusing 1010 hand.. thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i check/call all the way down and prolly fold to a push. [/ QUOTE ] I really really hate this line here. It's so expensive, you never find out where your at, you don't define your hand and give the villian tons of incentive to try to bluff you off with overs. AND your giving two basically free cards at what could easily be 6 outs or more and you don't know which cards hurt you by not betting. [/ QUOTE ] its not expensive at all. by calling you are announcing to the pf raiser that you have a significant hand. as a result, he will usually check the turn behind you. your hand has a value, let him negotiate the price that it is worth.
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#39
07-13-2005, 07:13 PM
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Re: Confusing 1010 hand.. thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i check/call all the way down and prolly fold to a push. [/ QUOTE ] I really really hate this line here. It's so expensive, you never find out where your at, you don't define your hand and give the villian tons of incentive to try to bluff you off with overs. AND your giving two basically free cards at what could easily be 6 outs or more and you don't know which cards hurt you by not betting. [/ QUOTE ] i agree check calling the whole way is atrocious. holla [/ QUOTE ] ok, so take your line and go bust which you obviously did. take my line and control the size of the pot. if he makes a huge bet, let the hand go. its so simple. holla
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#40
07-13-2005, 07:21 PM
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Re: Confusing 1010 hand.. thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i check/call all the way down and prolly fold to a push. [/ QUOTE ] I really really hate this line here. It's so expensive, you never find out where your at, you don't define your hand and give the villian tons of incentive to try to bluff you off with overs. AND your giving two basically free cards at what could easily be 6 outs or more and you don't know which cards hurt you by not betting. [/ QUOTE ] its not expensive at all. by calling you are announcing to the pf raiser that you have a significant hand. as a result, he will usually check the turn behind you. your hand has a value, let him negotiate the price that it is worth. [/ QUOTE ] No, check-calling this is really, really awful. You want money in on the flop instead of the turn or the river. Check-calling lets hands you beat on the flop catch up to you, and value bet the turn or the river for money, and may let 99 check the turn or river when they're going to call your bets. Absolutely awful line, especially with 2 opponents in, both of whom are likely to have overs at least. Check-raise here works, or bet-fold/3-bet.
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