KK 10/20

[sfer]

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Why the [censored] is the discussion here between calling and folding rather than calling and raising?

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Can someone answer this?

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3-bet the flop, not close.

Yeah, no one seemed to really tackle this hand with much detail. I'd still like some input - sthief seems to think I played it terribly, other players are saying it's a close calldown. During the hand I considered all three options before settling on calling down (betting when checked to).

-SmileyEH

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3-bet the flop. Not close.

[Perseus]

I am three betting this flop everytime.

If for some reason I could not three bet the flop I would wait to raise the turn.

The thought that folding was even suggested blows my mind.

[TStoneMBD]

if youre going to raise somewhere it should be on the river, not the flop.

[The Goober]

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Yeah, no one seemed to really tackle this hand with much detail. I'd still like some input

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Well, I'll throw out my $0.02... I think if this player was really that passive, he would probably have bet out the flop. If he's tricky enough to go for a flop CR with a queen, why wouldn't he wait until the turn/river to get in a raise? I've found that even passive players will often look at a paired flop and figure (correctly) that you aren't that likely to have hit it. Also, many players will play differently heads-up, so I feel like we have to basically treat this guy as an unknown here. The flop CR really feels to me like he's got a PP or two big cards and is trying to push you off of AK. FWIW, if I were UTG with with TT or JJ I'd play it this way - I'd assume I'm ahead on the flop and go for the CR, but hope that you'd fold with outs when I lead the turn.

Since you've got position, I'd call the flop and go for a raise on the turn, calling down if 3-bet. If I was OOP, I'd probably 3-bet the flop and lead the turn, since I don't want to run the risk of giving a free card.

[The Goober]

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if youre going to raise somewhere it should be on the river, not the flop.

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I think I'd almost always raise the turn here instead of the river. My thinking is that once I call the flop CR and the turn bet, villain might lose his nerve and check-call the river with a PP that he would have called down with.

It seems like waiting for the river is only a win those times that villian would have folded to the turn raise, but would have bet the river. It seems like most of the time, though, if villain is bluffing the turn, he would still have enough outs to call the raise and fold to the river bet, which gets us the same amount of money.

But I very rarely wait until the river to raise and I know there are times that I should be. Am I missing something here?

[Erik W]

Do we call down a 3-bet on the river?