AKo am i leaking or making good choices? - Page 4

esspo · #31 07-01-2005, 02:02 PM

This was my my thought too. With the flush draw and the fact that the preflop raiser did not re-raise makes it too likely that it will be checked through on the turn. The fact that Mike bet the turn shows he was worried about it being checked through. Its better imo to take control on the flop once Mike's postiion versus the aggressor has changed.

I also reraise pre-flop here.

ResidentParanoid · #32 07-01-2005, 02:21 PM

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Preflop i always 3 bet, but i am becoming more open to just calling in this situation so you have a stronger hand then you have telegraphed on these types of flops.

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OK, let me get this logic: I don't want to 3-bet pre-flop because I'll "fool" the unthinking, fishy, loose players cold-calling all around me into putting me on a weaker hand than I really have.

lil feller · #33 07-01-2005, 02:23 PM

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actually, I think the flop is the key street, and not raising the key decision....

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I agree that not being the initial raiser on the flop is the right way to go. It greatly increases your chances of being able to trap 3 or 4 players for 2 big bets on the turn. This plan gets flushed down the pooper, however, when the button decides to raise the flop, and most of the field calls. Given that this happened, I think your above statment could not be more wrong, and I'll actually write out why, instead of some useles kryptic one line answer.

It certainly appears that the blinds were folding no matter what, and that 5 people (mike +4) are seeing this turn card. That means 8sb's that don't belong to Mike. The buttons raise is going to induce everybody to check to the button on the turn, eliminating Mikes ability to get them for 2 big bets (one at a time). The bet will no longer come from EP, and checking this turn after its checked to you is insane. We know what actually happened, they all checked and Mike bet, and they all called. This hand plays out exactly the same, I would wager, if he 3 bets the flop, except now he gets an extra 4sb's in the pot from the field.

I honestly don't see how you cannot 3bet this.

lf

ResidentParanoid · #34 07-01-2005, 02:24 PM

Can someone let me in on the joke here? Or am I wrong in saying that this was misplayed across the board?

ResidentParanoid · #35 07-01-2005, 02:30 PM

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I honestly don't see how you cannot 3bet this.

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Exactly

shemp · #36 07-01-2005, 02:33 PM

Let's posit that there are more than one ways to do it here on every street, and that this is particularly strange. The question is whether doing it this way this time is a leak.

ResidentParanoid · #37 07-01-2005, 02:34 PM

This post has more ridiculously bad "I agree, nice hand" responses than I've seen for a long time.

bernie · #38 07-01-2005, 02:39 PM

If you're going to wait to the turn, you may as well 3 bet preflop. (you know the post will be big based on all the preflop coldcalls) After all, you're using the pot size, make the pot huge preflop then.

Nice plan on the flop, but the wrong person raised on the flop since they are behind you and the last to act. Gloves come off at this point. Especially since everyone just called his raise. They'll likely check to him on the turn. You're going to likely have to lead on the turn anyways to make sure the bet goes. Unless you really want to depend on 1 player left behind you to do it,(which is possible if you have a good read) so you may as well 3 bet it. If the person was in front of you, I can see waiting for the turn as it's more likely to get 2 bets in on the big street.

If someone 3 bets the flop ahead of you, then waiting becomes an option again. But not really once it's all called back to you closing the action in the CO.

b

ResidentParanoid · #39 07-01-2005, 02:40 PM

Is not re-raising your AKo routinely in a large field, against downstream opponents who will routinely call 2 or 3 bets cold with anything a leak: yes.

Is not 3-betting the flop for reasons mentioned by lil feller a leak: yes.

bernie · #40 07-01-2005, 02:45 PM

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I like your logic, but I think the button screws up your plans. After he raises the flop bet, and everybody calls, I would be awefully tempted to 3 bet and trap the peoople that have 2 or 3 outs for as many bets as possible. Any flush draw or straight draw is coming, correctly so, and i'd like to get my overlay now on the people I believe I have dominated.

Maybe I'm leaking.

lf

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It's also very possible the turn isn't going to go for 2 bets.

b