Ethical thing / best hand not winning at showdown

[GuyOnTilt]

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Ive been in this situation. A nice loud 'HOLD ON' is in order, otherwise its over before you know it.

The guy was shooting an angle, So are the mucked cards still live?

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Not only is a "HOLD ON" not in order, it would be really uncalled for to speak up like that.

GoT

[sully4321]

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if the player with qj saw the other players hand i do not think that he handled the situation properly

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How exactly is he supposed to handle it.

The hand doesn't end until the pot is pushed. If some idiot wants to muck the winner, and I've been that idiot before, screw him. That's why you table your hand and let the 'cardspeak'.

b

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he's not an idiot, the guy said "queen"... 8-seat is hoping the other guy doesn't have the queen of clubs, it's the only card he is worried about. then at showdown, the guy says "queen" -- not "queen high", just "queen"; aka the word the 8-seat has been repeating in his head the last 5 minutes. disappointed, he mucks cuz a q-high flush beats a j-high flush. the dealer should have said "q-high" or "q-high no flush" out loud.

the 3-seat is an angle shooter, a cheater, and a scumbag. he should be shot in the face for disgracing the game.

i would have spoken up immediately, my business or not. especially if i liked the 8-seat better [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[steamboatin]

Once the cards are face up on the table, then the cards speak and it is okay to correct a dealer error.

This entire discussion revolves around the difference between seeing someone's hole cards as they are mucked and cards that are shown down face up on the table.

If I accidently see someone else's cards and He mucks his hand, it is against the rules (ONE PLAYER TO A HAND) for me to tell him how to play his hand.

If both hands are shown down face up then the CARDS SPEAK rule applies.

[bernie]

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I was wondering about this.

I was playing a Baby Omaha game a couple months ago, and saw the low pot awarded to the wrong guy. Cards were tabled, and clueless dealer and involved players didn't see the proper low because it was a low board with lots of counterfeiting in both hands. Since I wasn't in the hand, I took the STFU approach and let it go.

Still, I've been wondering what I really should have done.

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Once the hands are tabled, now you can speak about the hand even if you're not involved at that point. Anyone who gets pissed at you for speaking up at that point is an idiot.

Dealers are human and make mistakes. In these cases, it's up to the players to protect the integrity of the game if possible.

b

[bernie]

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Depends on how fast the guy with the J went through the flash/muck/realize process

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No it shouldn't. It depends on whether he tables his hand.

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and he has the winner, I'm going to point it out if I see it. I don't care if I'm in the hand or not, it's in the best interest of the game in general for the best/right hand to win the pot

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Even though you'd be clearly violating one of the main rules in the cardroom? wow. Do that 2 or 3 times, I'm sure some would try and get you tossed out. I'd call the floor on the first time if you tried to justify it. That's not in the best interest of the game. 1 player to a hand, please.

b

[chesspain]

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Cards were tabled, and clueless dealer and involved players didn't see the proper low because it was a low board with lots of counterfeiting in both hands. Since I wasn't in the hand, I took the STFU approach and let it go.

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I think that you had a responsibility to speak up.

[bernie]

It's not the 3-seat guy's fault the 8 seat guy can't just table his hand. Much less, actually read a hand that's tabled.

b

[jedi]

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I was wondering about this.

I was playing a Baby Omaha game a couple months ago, and saw the low pot awarded to the wrong guy. Cards were tabled, and clueless dealer and involved players didn't see the proper low because it was a low board with lots of counterfeiting in both hands. Since I wasn't in the hand, I took the STFU approach and let it go.

Still, I've been wondering what I really should have done.

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Once the hands are tabled, now you can speak about the hand even if you're not involved at that point. Anyone who gets pissed at you for speaking up at that point is an idiot.

Dealers are human and make mistakes. In these cases, it's up to the players to protect the integrity of the game if possible.

b

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By the way, if you play Omaha live, expect to do this at least once a session. Damn game is confusing enough and I know what I'm doing.

[bernie]

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Damn game is confusing enough and I know what I'm doing.

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It's one reason I don't play it. I get lost in my hand. I know lots of dealers hate it when they first start dealing it. I remember 1 new dealer who was dealing it. She was having a hard time but trying. Then some old idiot starts bellowing how the room oughtta get a dealer that can deal it right, totally humiliating her. Not that he couldn't have helped her out at all. No, he'd rather make a scene.

I really felt for her on that one. She was a terrible dealer for awhile. Including lack of effort and all(though not the incident above). I used to contemplate leaving for her down she was so bad. But now she's much improved. I'd easily give her the most improved award last year. She's come a long way. Thank god.

b

[toots]

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Cards were tabled, and clueless dealer and involved players didn't see the proper low because it was a low board with lots of counterfeiting in both hands. Since I wasn't in the hand, I took the STFU approach and let it go.

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I think that you had a responsibility to speak up.

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Then if there's a next time, I'll speak up.

Thanks.