"Tourney players are idiots" -Mike Matusow

[Rushmore]

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Specifically, in Matasow's hand with AQ vs 55 he has the inferior hand but was certainly not outplayed.

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I can't believe we've reached a point here where these topics are getting so beat to death. I would have thought this was incredibly apparent to anyone reading, but there have been plenty of responses here which seem to indicate that people here are saying that if you push here with 55 when your opponent is clearly committed (and you yourself have very little commitment), that you have made some great play because your hand turns out to be a statistical favorite in a race.

Obviously, if the player gave any indication that he was making this play because he felt outclassed, and figured this was a good play in that perspective, it would be a different thing altogether.

I can only assume that our Fearless Leader took some of the comments (most notably, mine) out of context when responding above.

At least I HOPE so, or I am even more misguided than I had originally thought.

DISCLAIMER: Yes, an argument could be made that pro's need to learn to account for the fact that these Travel Channel players will make these plays. I think this is a different topic, though.

[Robk]

maybe the times they fold dont make it on tv.

[Rushmore]

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maybe the times they fold dont make it on tv.

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Jesus, what the hell is going on in this thread??!

I mean "...against someone who will clearly not be folding because he has 80% of his chips in the pot already."

Ok? Damn.

[Isaac Newton]

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maybe the times they fold dont make it on tv.

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Jesus, what the hell is going on in this thread??!

I mean "...against someone who will clearly not be folding because he has 80% of his chips in the pot already."

Ok? Damn.

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You should watch the video again. It was 50000 more and all of his chips to call with 55.

[Rushmore]

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You should watch the video again. It was 50000 more and all of his chips to call with 55.

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I wasn't really talking about that hand in particular, more about Matusow's general point.

In the hand in question, assuming they're at 1000/2000 or 1500/3000 blinds, MM makes it 10000 from the CO with AQs, his opponent makes it 30000 from the BB (leaving 50000 behind), MM correctly reads him weak and pushes, and the guy calls with 55.

I can't stand Matusow's schtick, for the most part; he's a generally annoying human. But is he so far off-base with his analysis here? Unless Can has some mystical read on Matusow, he has to believe there's a REALLY good chance he's dominated here, yet he calls anyway.

This isn't even a particularly egregious instance of the phenomenon Matusow seems to be describing, but there it is anyway.

[twankerr]

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If a guy will call with AK, AQ, AJ, KQs, ATs and any pair:

The guy with 66 is way ahead of 55,44,33,22 == 24 hands

Way behind against 77,88,99,TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA == 56 hands

Slightly favored against AK, AQ, AJ, KQs, ATs == 56 hands

Just throwing this range of hands out not saying it's realistic. However, the thinking is that I need to double up and I'm willing to take the worst of it but I won't be taking too much the worst of it.

Approximately off the top of my head, that guy with 66 is about a 7-6 dog to come out on top. Not a bad gamble when you need to double IMO. I realize that the range may not be realistic but this is the thinking involved with making the move with a hand 66 IMO. Also if you don't know where you're at after the flop against some players i.e. they play better than you after the flop it even makes more sense IMO.

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Hand 1: 45.8787 % [ 00.45 00.01 ] { 66 }
Hand 2: 54.1213 % [ 00.53 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-ATs, KQs, AKo-AJo }

Hes about a 9:11 underdog. Pushing in these situations is fine because your opponent will fold some times, but calling as a 9:11 underdog against THAT range of hands is a huge mistake. The range should be smaller IMO also. No AJo, KQs, ATs.

[Jax_Grinder]

I just don't get these posts about how poor the play is at the WSOP and how bad that is for the "good" players.

First, weren't there like a million of these over the past year? Why doesn't someone just cut and paste one of those threads and save us all the time.

Second, I don't understand the line of reasoning that goes, "I sure would rather play against 500 highly skilled players for $1M than 5000 donks for $10M. How is it that getting a player to totally misplay a hand is a BAD thing? Doesn't that violate David's fundamental theorem?

[LargeCents]

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The vidoe of Mike M. is hilarious, and he is more jokey than ussual. Even though he is annoying he has a good point, people who watch the wpt and such are being taught to love coinflips way too much, too much preflop pushing really diminishes the skill of the game, which is mainly seen postflop. Hope the main even is not all played preflop.



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I love Mike M, he's my favorite TV poker personality, and I'm rooting for him to go deep in the 2006 WSOP main event.

Unfortunately, he seems to not understand how to beat inexperienced tournament players. It sounds like he was the one pushing, preflop. See a flop, and just outplay the idiots with big hands, that's how to beat the rookies. Sheesh. Instead, he's pushing for coinflips, it sounds like. As good as he is, he shouldn't be settling for coinflips against weak opponents.

[Rushmore]

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Unfortunately, he seems to not understand how to beat inexperienced tournament players. It sounds like he was the one pushing, preflop. See a flop, and just outplay the idiots with big hands, that's how to beat the rookies. Sheesh. Instead, he's pushing for coinflips, it sounds like. As good as he is, he shouldn't be settling for coinflips against weak opponents.

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This is the only post in this thread that I think really properly approaches any fault that Matusow has (relative to the issues in this thread). I say "aproaches," because it still misses.

The problem is not that he is "pushing for coinflips." The problem is that he is pushing in situations where he used to see a lot of people fold, and now he does not, and he is not adjusting to it.

I can see this as being a reasonable criticism.

[TStoneMBD]

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Love him or hate him, he was 100% correct about everything. I mean, how many times have you said almost the exact same thing?

You clearly commit yourself, and then the guy raises you allin with NO FE whatsoever holding 33. This is a good way to play poker?

Hey, when he's right, he's right.

And he's right. The people he's talking about get these moves on the Travel Channel, they take them out of context, and then they put them to play in the Real World.

I, for one, would rather get outplayed.

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yes this is true, but he still didnt have to say all this the way he said it. also, he wasnt current about the cam-cam hand or whatever his name is. matusow opened from a steal position and the guy came over the top of him from with blinds with 55. how is that a bad play?