Post for david...

[worm33]

Typical B@m scenario: 2 chip 3 chip blind structure. We have the J9s in the cutoff. We open raise. The bb has 47s. As hes ready to muck he asks "u want action." He doesnt play bad doesnt play good. Is it wrong for us to say yes? I ALWAYS want action in this spot. Mainly being in holdem it is hard to hit a flop. And with j9 theres a lot of flops u can represent. If it comes ak7 and he hits his key card we still win. BTW I 100% disagree with all of this nonsense about defending with 10-7o and such.

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
Typical B@m scenario: 2 chip 3 chip blind structure. We have the J9s in the cutoff. We open raise. The bb has 47s. As hes ready to muck he asks "u want action." He doesnt play bad doesnt play good. Is it wrong for us to say yes? I ALWAYS want action in this spot. Mainly being in holdem it is hard to hit a flop. And with j9 theres a lot of flops u can represent. If it comes ak7 and he hits his key card we still win. BTW I 100% disagree with all of this nonsense about defending with 10-7o and such.

[/ QUOTE ]

So do I. Which is the biggest reason I wanted to get some feeback from you guys. I cant ever remember defending in that spot agaist a guy with a normal opening range, but since a lot of sucessful players seem to think its a mistake not to, I have to wonder if I need to be a little more stuborn with my marginal hands. I also agree with your thinking in spots like your J9 example.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Typical B@m scenario: 2 chip 3 chip blind structure. We have the J9s in the cutoff. We open raise. The bb has 47s. As hes ready to muck he asks "u want action." He doesnt play bad doesnt play good. Is it wrong for us to say yes? I ALWAYS want action in this spot. Mainly being in holdem it is hard to hit a flop. And with j9 theres a lot of flops u can represent. If it comes ak7 and he hits his key card we still win. BTW I 100% disagree with all of this nonsense about defending with 10-7o and such.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think your expectation is greater than .75 bb/hand when he calls?

[J_V]

You want a fold and its not close. The only exception he plans on folding extremely often.

[J_V]

Versus a cutoff range: AA-55, Aks-A2s, Ako-A9o, KQo-K-To, QJs, QTs, JTs, KQs-KTs, QJo, QTo.


BB hands:
T7o: 65-35
J2o: 70-30
84s: 66-34

Slightly suprising the first time I saw these.

It is really not my place to say what I think of these numbers as the original ideas were not mine and I'd be wrongfully regurgitating other people thoughts.

But at first glance, it certainly makes me want to defend more blinds if you play well heads up out of position.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
Firstly, you don't make money by defending your blinds with hands like 74.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you mean by "don't make money". Against typical loose raisers you will win more of the pot on average, than the small bet you must put in to call the raise.

[Philuva]

[ QUOTE ]
"JA, even though I dont really like the tone of your posts basically ever"

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet but this just made me stop and go "wow". JASucker is one of the most unoffensive posters around, you are crazy to think that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. He is one of a handfull of posters I always read.

[andyfox]

Josh W. posted this a while back, I thought it made a lot of sense, wondering about your take:

A decent amount has been written about playing "Any two" in the SB of a 2/3 chip game. And, yet, I feel that not enough has been written.

See, the problem is...you are getting like 14:1 on your call. Even if the BB never ever ever ever ever raises preflop, that's not enough.

Sure, you'll win the pot more than 1 in 15 times against 4 opponents. But hands like this make the second best hand waaaay too often.

A friend of mine once asked me what hands I won't play in a situation like this. My response was "weak unsuited face cards". I'd seriously rather have 73o in this spot than K4o. Yeah, K4o will win more often, but K4o will also lose many bets waaaaay too often.

I was talking with a friend in Vegas during the WSOP. He’s new to poker, and asked about 'seeing the flop' in the SB w/ specifically Q6o (very similar). My discussion went basically like:
Alright, you may flop quads. That's a good flop. And, you may flop trips. Your trips will win pretty frequently (when nobody else flops trips, and any/all draws miss), but when they lose, you'll be barbequed. And then there's all the times you flop two pair.

You have Q6o, and the flop comes Q86 with two clubs. The only reason you saw the flop was because it was 6 or 7 way action. It's still 6 or 7 way action. What do you want the other two cards to be? You'll have to pound the bejeezus outta the flop and turn, and hope that nobody improves by the river.

Same with K4o. Gimme 94o instead. Then I can't flop top pair as easily, and I can get away from it except when I get a good flop (quads). But with weak unsuited face cards, you make the second best hand waaaay too often.

And what if you flop just one pair. If the flop was KQ3 two-tone. MP bets, and zero or one person calls. Now what do you do? Check/call the whole way? Push your weak hand? Nothing looks too good. And yet, if its heads up, you gonna fold top pair? That can't be a good habit to get into. And you're committed to being out of position.

I guess what I'm saying is, throw the crap away. Look, you even said that your 'timing' is off now. You seem uncertain of yourself (perfectly normal and expected). Well, make life easy on yourself. Don’t put yourself in a situation where there are no easy decisions.

Poker is easy right now. Don’t make it hard. Playing K4o out of position is hard.

[J_V]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is easy right now. Don’t make it hard. Playing K4o out of position is hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tommy and you seem to have a never-ending interest in making things easy, that many others posters do not share. I play poker because I enjoy the challenge of it and because I like to think. With the end goal being to make the most money possible, keeping things easy is not a high priority of mine.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
Josh W. posted this a while back, I thought it made a lot of sense, wondering about your take:

A decent amount has been written about playing "Any two" in the SB of a 2/3 chip game. And, yet, I feel that not enough has been written.

See, the problem is...you are getting like 14:1 on your call. Even if the BB never ever ever ever ever raises preflop, that's not enough.

Sure, you'll win the pot more than 1 in 15 times against 4 opponents. But hands like this make the second best hand waaaay too often.

A friend of mine once asked me what hands I won't play in a situation like this. My response was "weak unsuited face cards". I'd seriously rather have 73o in this spot than K4o. Yeah, K4o will win more often, but K4o will also lose many bets waaaaay too often.

I was talking with a friend in Vegas during the WSOP. He’s new to poker, and asked about 'seeing the flop' in the SB w/ specifically Q6o (very similar). My discussion went basically like:
Alright, you may flop quads. That's a good flop. And, you may flop trips. Your trips will win pretty frequently (when nobody else flops trips, and any/all draws miss), but when they lose, you'll be barbequed. And then there's all the times you flop two pair.

You have Q6o, and the flop comes Q86 with two clubs. The only reason you saw the flop was because it was 6 or 7 way action. It's still 6 or 7 way action. What do you want the other two cards to be? You'll have to pound the bejeezus outta the flop and turn, and hope that nobody improves by the river.

Same with K4o. Gimme 94o instead. Then I can't flop top pair as easily, and I can get away from it except when I get a good flop (quads). But with weak unsuited face cards, you make the second best hand waaaay too often.

And what if you flop just one pair. If the flop was KQ3 two-tone. MP bets, and zero or one person calls. Now what do you do? Check/call the whole way? Push your weak hand? Nothing looks too good. And yet, if its heads up, you gonna fold top pair? That can't be a good habit to get into. And you're committed to being out of position.

I guess what I'm saying is, throw the crap away. Look, you even said that your 'timing' is off now. You seem uncertain of yourself (perfectly normal and expected). Well, make life easy on yourself. Don’t put yourself in a situation where there are no easy decisions.

Poker is easy right now. Don’t make it hard. Playing K4o out of position is hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like the argument that unsuited 76 is better than suited 76 b/c you won't get tied to the pot with the unsuited version.