|
|
#31
04-29-2005, 11:18 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Shoot first, check the bodies later
[ QUOTE ]
I find the whole episode a tragic reminder of how trigger happy the American soldiers have been in Iraq since the first day of military operations. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah. What a bunch of crazy cowboys those American Soldiers are. Geez, for the life of me I can't figure out how constant attacks on the soldiers would make them trigger happy. Of course, any jackass with half a mind knows that you let a speeding car that fails to yield crash into you with a bomb laden car before you decide to act. Duh. 
|
|
#32
04-30-2005, 01:27 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shoot first, check the bodies later
Cyrus, you couldn't be more wrong.
[ QUOTE ] Yeah, nice try, misdirecting this to the usual stereotype of "reckless Italian drivers". As if driving on an Iraqi road is the same as driving through Milan traffic. [/ QUOTE ] Contrary to what you believe, I wasn't stereotyping the driver. I should have used the singular form, driver. As in the Italian agent who was driving at 60mph towards an American checkpoint. What is it they say about assuming...? [ QUOTE ] That “communist Italian nutjob” is alive now only because her guardian was killed, when he shielded her with his body. He was anything but a communist, in fact. He was a highly competent member of the Italian intelligence services and an experienced hostage negotiator. [/ QUOTE ] What does this have to do with anything? I wasn't calling the Italian agent a commie, I was calling the journalist a commie, and rightfully so. [ QUOTE ] I find the whole episode a tragic reminder of how trigger happy the American soldiers have been in Iraq since the first day of military operations. IMO, there can't have been any "conspiracy" to kill Sgrena, as she implies, because the idiocy displayed by the American side all through that war simply is not that high to commit such a PR blunder. [/ QUOTE ] Frankly, I find your entire response a tragic reminder of just how dumb some lefties are. [ QUOTE ] That the American soldiers have been trigger happy is a fact of life. I'm sure there are many people on these pages who are quite "happy" with such an attitude and totally "support the troops" when they fire in all directions and ask questions later, but thousands of Iraqi civilians (and, now, an Italian non-combatant) paid the price for that. [/ QUOTE ] Interesting how you describe defending what the soldiers perceived to be an incoming attack as "trigger happy". God willing, if I'm ever threatened with bodily harm, I will also respond with action that Cyrus will deem "trigger happy". [ QUOTE ] When the American tanks first rolled into Baghdad, Iraqi civilians who found themselves in their general path, unarmed men on the sidewalk, women raising their hands in the universal symbol of surrendering, children peeping out of a door, even dogs, were cut down where they stood by "precautionary fire". A wave of metal thunder, indeed. [/ QUOTE ] I don't believe any of this. Care to back this up? [ QUOTE ] The Italians would have a far better chance of surviving if that had been a British roadblock. [/ QUOTE ] Only if those British troops didn't care for their safety.
|
|
#33
04-30-2005, 01:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shoot first, check the bodies later
I try to make note of people that have made posts so utterly stupid I stop reading what they have to say because they are complete biased idiots. You have now joined the list:
Jaxmike Dead Cyrus
|
|
#34
04-30-2005, 01:44 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shoot first, check the bodies later
[ QUOTE ]
The Italians would have a far better chance of surviving if that had been a British roadblock. [/ QUOTE ] What evidence do you have for this? I think you are being very presumptuous. The American soldiers will have had their terms of combat handed down to them VERY clearly and repeatedly by their supervisors. It is possible that they panicked and shot before they were supposed to, but also possible that they acted perfectly correctly. I like to assume innocent until proved otherwise, and I have seen nothing to suggest inappropriate behaviour from these particular American troops.
|
|
#35
05-01-2005, 01:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Down with the bengals
I already and explicitly stated that, in my humble opinion, there was probably no "conspiracy" on the part of the American forces to kill the Italian hostage.
This leaves two scenarios: 1. The American soldiers at the roadblock behaved in a trigger-happy manner (for whatever reason, even a "legitimate" one such as having recently witnessed a suicide bombing attack), or 2. The Italians in the car approached the roadblock in the manner and speed of suicide bombers, for some mysterious reason. Scenario 1 seems way more probable, to me. That's all there is to it. [ QUOTE ] I wasn't calling the Italian agent a commie. What does this have to do with anything? [/ QUOTE ] It has everything to do with it. In charge of the rescue operation and also travelling in the fatal car was a highly trained and experienced hostage negotiator --the subsequent victim of American fire-- who would reasonably have been expected to behave cautiously and without fear. He was not a "leftist" by any stretch of the term; in fact, he was following Italian government orders and policy (which are pro-American). Commentators have speculated that the Italians were speeding and not paying attention to American signals out of "panic" but this does not jive with subsequent events. A leader who allows a situation to get out of hand due to fear will not sacrifice himself to save the hostage. [ QUOTE ] I don't believe any of this [claim that the American soldiers in Iraq have been trigger happy in general]. Care to back this up? [/ QUOTE ] Sure. Sample testimony: "The Americans fired indiscriminately all around them. I heard someone shout in English: 'Shoot anything that moves'. They even shot each other. Two of them were laying screaming in the road." ...Hey, some cowboy numbnuts even shot up the tiger in the Baghdad zoo.
|
|
#36
05-01-2005, 02:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Yallah - in the dark
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The Italians would have a far better chance of surviving if that had been a British roadblock. [/ QUOTE ] What evidence do you have for this? [/ QUOTE ] Very quickly: The areas assigned to the British have been relatively more quiet (although the Brits are dealing with the sensitive and equally volatile Shi'a area, mostly). And the number of civilians killed in similar "accidents" by Brits is relatively far smaller. The Brits, at least, made sure to have in Iraq as many Arab-speaking personnel as logistically possible. The Americans? Here's Scott Taylor, war reporter from Canada, September 30, 2003 : [ QUOTE ] "There is definitely an acute shortage of Arab-speaking US Intelligence personnel in Iraq. One gets the impression that they are working not only blind, but deaf and dumb as well. The numerous gaffes that we've seen to date with regards to the mistaken identities of top level Iraqi captives is certainly indicative of this." link [/ QUOTE ]
|
|
#37
05-01-2005, 02:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Down with the bengals
[ QUOTE ]
This leaves two scenarios: 1. The American soldiers at the roadblock behaved in a trigger-happy manner (for whatever reason, even a "legitimate" one such as having recently witnessed a suicide bombing attack), or 2. The Italians in the car approached the roadblock in the manner and speed of suicide bombers, for some mysterious reason. Scenario 1 seems way more probable, to me. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, trigger happy soldiers seems the most likely explanation. Still waiting for the satellite report, and how it shows they were driving at 60mph before they were attacked.
|
|
#38
05-01-2005, 03:44 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shoot first, check the bodies later
[ QUOTE ]
When the American tanks first rolled into Baghdad, Iraqi civilians who found themselves in their general path, unarmed men on the sidewalk, women raising their hands in the universal symbol of surrendering, children peeping out of a door, even dogs, were cut down where they stood by "precautionary fire". A wave of metal thunder, indeed. [/ QUOTE ] Cyrus this is a BOLD FACED LIE.I say prove it. I get sick of the anti anerican wackos making up all this bs. As a veteran i say prove it. You cannot. I know it. You know it.
|
|
#39
05-01-2005, 05:41 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Down with the bengals
[ QUOTE ]
It has everything to do with it. In charge of the rescue operation and also travelling in the fatal car was a highly trained and experienced hostage negotiator --the subsequent victim of American fire-- who would reasonably have been expected to behave cautiously and without fear. He was not a "leftist" by any stretch of the term; in fact, he was following Italian government orders and policy (which are pro-American). Commentators have speculated that the Italians were speeding and not paying attention to American signals out of "panic" but this does not jive with subsequent events. A leader who allows a situation to get out of hand due to fear will not sacrifice himself to save the hostage. [/ QUOTE ] No, it doesn't. And on what do you base your assertion that someone who let a situation get out of hand would be unwilling to sacrifice himself? You're just guessing. [ QUOTE ] Sure. Sample testimony:blah blah blah[/quot] Cyrus, that doesn't back up the assertion you made that American soldiers, upon entering Baghdad, shot unarmed men, women, and children walking down the street. Forgive me for not blindly trusting an Iraqi witness with no indication that he speaks or fully understands english. Nor do I fully trust the BBC, as they've been staunchly anti-war since the beginning. As far as the tiger-shooting, so what? The tiger attacked a soldier! I say shoot it and eat it. This does nothing to prove your baseless assertion that the Americans will shoot anyone in their path.
|
|
#40
05-01-2005, 08:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Shoot first, check the bodies later
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] When the American tanks first rolled into Baghdad, Iraqi civilians who found themselves in their general path, unarmed men on the sidewalk, women raising their hands in the universal symbol of surrendering, children peeping out of a door, even dogs, were cut down where they stood by "precautionary fire". A wave of metal thunder, indeed. [/ QUOTE ] Cyrus this is a BOLD FACED LIE.I say prove it. I get sick of the anti anerican wackos making up all this bs. As a veteran i say prove it. You cannot. I know it. You know it. [/ QUOTE ] perhaps you think cyrus is referring to a specific incident? i'm sure they are many... this kind of thing DOES happen in war you know. what, you don't think the troops cut down a dog or two in the crossfire?
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
