Controversy and Interesting Floor Decision at WPT Champ...

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

While I agree completely with this decision, I;m curious as to how does it get around the "you must have two cards two show" rule? I thought that was in place to prevents cheating, collusion, and angle shots. What if Schein had AsAs?

[/ QUOTE ]

By this logic, then you should show every losing hand you muck in the river, just in case you're playing AsAs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you'd know if you were playing AsAs.

The reason for this, other than the obvious, is so that someone can't just jack up the hand hoping everyone will just fold and then expect when they get called on the end that the hand will be declared dead. A guy told me this happened to him once, where he had sutited Aces, jacked it up, won on the river w/o a showdown, then mucked and asked for a deck change. Maybe BS, but it was the first I'd heard of it.

There was a thread in NVG a couple of months ago that went pretty in-depth into this kind of thing. I'm nowhere near an expert on it.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if Lawson knew he had a straight..

[/ QUOTE ]
Damnit....I wanted to make this joke. nh sir.

[Nick B.]

How about the ruling that was located in Max Pescatori's blog about how his hand was killed preflop because he was kneeling in his chair and not sitting. It seems a bit excessive. web page

[Sin Dee]

WPT uses the TDA Rules
Rule # 1
Floor people are to consider the best interest of the game and fairness as the top priority in the decision-making proccess. Unusual circumstances can, on occasion, dictate that the technical interpretation of the rules be ignored in the interest of "fairness". The floorperson's decision is final.

I guess that guys dictate must tate good, becuase it was not fair to the other players to muck an unexposed hand to split the pot.

[Lottery Larry]

I'm confused- I don't understand what AA has to do with changing the outcome of the hand. with the board showing a 6-high straight

I also don't understand this at all
" other than the obvious, is so that someone can't just jack up the hand hoping everyone will just fold and then expect when they get called on the end that the hand will be declared dead. "

Are you saying that the angle shot would be to raise, get some people to muck their cards while declaring "I'm playing the board" (which is a bit ambiguous, since people say that when they miss their hands and know they are beaten), and then declare their hand dead because it was mucked, even though the board is the winner?
Isn't this why you SHOULD require people to hold onto their cards, so you don't get the reverse angle shot by people who are folding because they think they're beaten by a 7 and then try to change history?

"A guy told me this happened to him once, where he had sutited Aces, jacked it up, won on the river w/o a showdown, then mucked and asked for a deck change. Maybe BS, but it was the first I'd heard of it. "

I'm not sure what he did wrong here, but is he asking for a deck change to cover up something he did? I didn't understand this reference at all.

Sorry to be so dense .

Can you point us to the thread you're talking about, or do we have to search and hope we can get lucky and find it?

Thanks
LL

[Lottery Larry]

I agree, but I'd also warn the player that mucking his cards in the future would NOT get the same ruling. This could prevent future angle shots, yes?

[Lottery Larry]

thanks J.R.

[Patrick Duffy]

he had two aces of the same suit, implying that the deck was no good...he won without showing them and asked for a new deck so no one else would have that same advantage...

[Phil2]

This is stuff you see at a 2/4 table. Players at this level should know that if you muck your hand, it is dead. If you are splitting the pot, you have a winning hand, and YOU DON'T GIVE THE DEALER YOUR CARDS UNTIL YOU GET THE POT.
Christ.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
Schein said something to the effecct of "I'm playing the board," and mucked his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't even read the responses to the thread yet, but this is actually a rule -- any player may announce "I'm playing the board", and the board becomes his hand.

It's a rule, so the floor made the right decision by chopping the pot.

-dB