First, Do No Harm.

[Chairman Wood]

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I wouldn't let anyone put anything in my daughters ass without proper negotiations first.

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When can we begin negotiations? Conference calls or in person?

[BadBoyBenny]

I would have called her doctor again at home and found out if this was the recommended procedure. The nurse should at least be able to give a logical reason why the other temperature taking methods are not sufficient.

[Blarg]

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i've been through ear infections before, and was almost certain this was not one. kids pull their ears for lots of reasons, and when there is an infection, there is almost always a fever.

cheers!

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Not at all true. Some people have chronic sinus infections for years, for instance, without fevers. Sometimes they don't even realize it. A friend of mine had that, bad enough that eventually she had to go through all kinds of surgeries. A sinus sounds as good as an ear to me.

Besides, haven't you ever had an infected toe or something? I've had some pretty fierce infections without running a temperature.

[Blarg]

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let me say that, in the interest of being as succinct as possible, i left out some things. first, my daughter had calmed down on the car ride to the hospital, and for the 20 minutes or so we waited to register, she seemed just fine. she wanted to read books/play, etc. she only started fussing again when the nurse started getting blood pressure, etc...i felt very confident in my decision to leave, and would not have if i felt i was putting her in danger.

i felt strongly there was nothing really wrong with her. there have been other times when my other daughters had sporadic fevers with no other symptoms where the doctor told us to give it a day or so on tylenol and call back if the fever comes back, etc... and i thought something really was wrong. in one instance, i was insistent that she see a doctor that day, and it turned out to be a UTI, and that daughter had to get a spinal tap to make sure it had not become meningitis...when she was 6 months old and in the hospital for 5 days.

so, this was a PRECAUTIONARY MEASURE, and i'm not one to take sickness lightly. sometimes a fathers instinct is as good as gold, as it was in this case(did you read the results in white?).

cheers!

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But you didn't know that.

You were just gambling.

I suggest you have anal sex as soon as possible so you can get over this hang-up.

[daryn]

your daughter will become a porn star specializing in the as[/b]s. that is all.

[elwoodblues]

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The nurse should at least be able to give a logical reason why the other temperature taking methods are not sufficient.

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She did. She told him (correctly) that it is more accurate.

[elwoodblues]

You might consider your fatherly instincts to be great, but somehow I doubt that you'd be posting this story if it turns out the next day your daughter had a 105 degree temperature and appropriate medications could have been administered the night before to relieve her.


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when my triplets were born, they were in intensive care for the first 10 days of their lives, and no doctor ever stuck a foreign object in their butts

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Did you ever think that maybe the procedures for (presumably) premature newborns is different than for a 1 year old? My understanding is that they don't recommend anal thermometers for newborns because they are a lot smaller than 1 year olds and the thermometer can't safely be inserted far enough to get an accurate reading. They'll still do it if they need to get an accurate reading, but will rely on the less accurate armpit for the day to day readings.

[Dead]

You are a bad father.

[Skipbidder]

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If she had an ear infection, he wanted the antibiotics started immediately.

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Reasonable.

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So, off i go. we get registered in and all, and by that time, the wee one calmed down considerably, and seemed OK. the nurse proceeded to get all the necessaries...blood pressure, heart rate, etc...which made my daughter cry some more. "next", says the nurse, "we need to get her temperature with an anal thermometer."

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Probably said "rectal" thermometer, but not relevant to the story.

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I asked why it was necessary, and she told me that it was more accurate than other means of getting a child's temperature.

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She's right. It is the most accurate. The pediatricians care about temperature to tenths of a degree to a considerably larger degree than internists. I can't really tell you why--my youngest patient on the floor right now is 81. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If you are really interested, I could do a lit search for you while I am on call tomorrow. It is likely to be a ridiculously boring answer.

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"thanks, but no thanks" i said. we'll wait until morning to go to her doctor.

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I think that you made a mistake, but you really are unlikely to have done any harm.

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He's never shoved anything up her ass.

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I think that you should engage in some introspection about this issue. This is the normal method of taking temperatures in this age group. There are some medicines which would be administered rectally for her as well. Do you think that she cares or will remember? You wipe her ass with wet naps all the time. She's going to get vaginal exams and breast exams during her life as well. There is a fair chance she'll get at least one rectal too. You should also be getting some along the way. Please don't allow your squeamishness to potentially interfere with your health like you did for your daughter.

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Now, it may very well be more accurate to get a temp that way, but is 1/2 a degree off accurate going to change any doctor's diagnosis?

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Maybe. They get picky about this sort of thing. I'll do that lit search because now I'm curious about it.

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When my triplets were born, they were in intensive care for the first 10 days of their lives, and no doctor ever stuck a foreign object in their butts.

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Good. Rectal temperatures are inappropriate in neonates. It is a safety issue.

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They had constant temperature monitoring by something they stuck on their foreheads. they also taught me to take their temperature at home using a thermometer under the arm.

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Less accurate, but better than nothing. Your accuracy needs as far as monitoring temperature at home are different than a doc's need to monitor it in a sick kid.

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There is also a device that takes a temperature immediately from the inner ear.

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Perhaps not so good in potential ear infection.

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Any of these could have been used with very little discomfort,

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The discomfort here wouldn't have been your daughter's. It would have been yours.

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not to mention it was quite obvious by touching her forehead that she did not have a fever.

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People aren't so great at assessing temperature by touch. I pulled up two metastudies which showed surprising error rate for parents in assessing whether their child had fever. One study showed 76-86% accuracy; the other 82-89%.

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All i wanted to know is did she have an ear infection.

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I don't think that you wanted to know quite badly enough.

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I couldn't see how inserting something in the poor girl's ass had any bearing on that.

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Do you REALLY think you have the qualifications to judge this? Blood pressure, heart rate, temperature, and respiratory rate are routine parts of your visit to any doc. These are non-invasive (despite your feelings otherwise), useful, inexpensive measures. We take them as a matter of course.

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Was i wrong for leaving,

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Yes, you were wrong, and it isn't close.

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or did i do right by protecting her?

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You didn't protect her. You exposed her to (a fairly small) risk of harm.

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BTW, she did not have an ear infection, nor did she have an upset stomach. she had a pebble/small rock in her shoe.

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Good. No harm done this time. Please consider carefully whether or not you wish to place your own issues ahead of your daughter's health in the future. You should have found out that she had no ear infection earlier, without having to go to your regular doc.

BTW, the use of antibiotics in kids with single episode of ear infection is a subject of debate. Infections will resolve in less than two weeks 80% of the time without antibiotics. (Rate is 95% with antibiotics...some bacteria are resistant to the first line antibiotic choices.) The real reason to treat the infection at all is to try to prevent progression to chronic ear infections or to mastoiditis or meningitis.

[Blarg]

Nice to hear from a doctor.

Not that I am one, but I just want to remark on the last lines of yours. I can see a good reason to treat ear infections -- they are excruciating and can give you really sharp, piercing pain. Not like the kind in your foot you can just more or less ignore, either. With an ear infection, every time you chew, open your mouth, swallow, cough, sneeze, yawn, practically even breathe, you can either feel new pain or become very aware of the constant pain you're in. Since it's in your head, it's always at the forefront of your attention and perception. That's hard enough as an adult, but for a kid, it's an even more outsize misery.

I'm sure if I were a parent, I would be pushing for whatever I could to get my kid out of that misery as soon as possible. I've had nasty ear infections, and I wouldn't wish that on anybody.