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#31
03-22-2005, 11:09 PM
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Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
[ QUOTE ]
No, I don't agree. Not even close. [/ QUOTE ] He was easily the best position player of the 90s, the only two people even remotely close are Big Hurt and Griffey. He was, at his prime, an amazing left fielder. From 1990-1998, his lowest OBP was .406. From 90-98 he was never lower than 5th on the NL leaderboards, leading the league 4 times. From 1990-1998, he had a SLG below .550 once. He was never below sixth on the NL leaderboards, leading thrice. From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS was .914 - which lead the league in 1992. He was never below THIRD on the NL leaderboard, leading five times. From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS+ was 161, which lead the league. This measure compares park-adjusted OPS to the league average - 100 would avarage. He lead the league 4 times during this period, and was never below third. He also made the top ten in steals in the NL 7 times during this period. For his career until 1998, he had a career OPS+ of 164 in 8100 atbats. This would make him 9th all time, behind a few people that it would be hard to make a case being better than Bonds - Shoeless Joe (who had 1000 less PAs and was out of the game at 30), Dan Brouthers (who played the overwhelming majority of his time pre-1900), and the upper echelon of position players - Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Williams - most of whom played pre-integration, in a league without talented black hitters, making it easier to dominate their leagues. Please list your top ten list of position players, all time, start of the majors-1998, and I'll ridicule it for not including Barry. 
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#32
03-22-2005, 11:20 PM
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Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No, I don't agree. Not even close. [/ QUOTE ] He was easily the best position player of the 90s, the only two people even remotely close are Big Hurt and Griffey. He was, at his prime, an amazing left fielder. From 1990-1998, his lowest OBP was .406. From 90-98 he was never lower than 5th on the NL leaderboards, leading the league 4 times. From 1990-1998, he had a SLG below .550 once. He was never below sixth on the NL leaderboards, leading thrice. From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS was .914 - which lead the league in 1992. He was never below THIRD on the NL leaderboard, leading five times. From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS+ was 161, which lead the league. This measure compares park-adjusted OPS to the league average - 100 would avarage. He lead the league 4 times during this period, and was never below third. He also made the top ten in steals in the NL 7 times during this period. For his career until 1998, he had a career OPS+ of 164 in 8100 atbats. This would make him 9th all time, behind a few people that it would be hard to make a case being better than Bonds - Shoeless Joe (who had 1000 less PAs and was out of the game at 30), Dan Brouthers (who played the overwhelming majority of his time pre-1900), and the upper echelon of position players - Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Williams - most of whom played pre-integration, in a league without talented black hitters, making it easier to dominate their leagues. Please list your top ten list of position players, all time, start of the majors-1998, and I'll ridicule it for not including Barry. [/ QUOTE ] VNH.
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#33
03-22-2005, 11:30 PM
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Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
trying to convince someone whom hates Barry with all their heart that he is one of the best baseball players ever(even "pre-steroid") is a lesson in futility.
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#34
03-22-2005, 11:49 PM
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Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
i honestly think that players like barry bonds are ruining sports.
no one in their right mind ever believed (or still believes) he wasn't taking steroids. allowing him to break hank aarons all time home run record or pass babe ruth's would be horrible for baseball and for fans who believe in integrity stealthcow-
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#35
03-22-2005, 11:53 PM
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Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
^ Jack, see. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#36
03-23-2005, 12:08 AM
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Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
We don't know what kind of father he is. He might not be an a-hole.
But he definitely is a spoiled crybaby with a distorted sense of his own self-importance. He's coming up on Babe Ruth's lifetime home run total and all sorts of other achievements, he could really set an example for others if he showed some humility and generosity and graciousnesss. What a shame.
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#37
03-23-2005, 12:17 AM
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Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] No, I don't agree. Not even close. [/ QUOTE ] He was easily the best position player of the 90s, the only two people even remotely close are Big Hurt and Griffey. He was, at his prime, an amazing left fielder. From 1990-1998, his lowest OBP was .406. From 90-98 he was never lower than 5th on the NL leaderboards, leading the league 4 times. From 1990-1998, he had a SLG below .550 once. He was never below sixth on the NL leaderboards, leading thrice. From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS was .914 - which lead the league in 1992. He was never below THIRD on the NL leaderboard, leading five times. From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS+ was 161, which lead the league. This measure compares park-adjusted OPS to the league average - 100 would avarage. He lead the league 4 times during this period, and was never below third. He also made the top ten in steals in the NL 7 times during this period. For his career until 1998, he had a career OPS+ of 164 in 8100 atbats. This would make him 9th all time, behind a few people that it would be hard to make a case being better than Bonds - Shoeless Joe (who had 1000 less PAs and was out of the game at 30), Dan Brouthers (who played the overwhelming majority of his time pre-1900), and the upper echelon of position players - Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Williams - most of whom played pre-integration, in a league without talented black hitters, making it easier to dominate their leagues. Please list your top ten list of position players, all time, start of the majors-1998, and I'll ridicule it for not including Barry. [/ QUOTE ] VNH. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. Game, set, match.
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#38
03-23-2005, 12:21 AM
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Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
I'm sure Barry haters will simply skim this and move on to their ridiculous anti-steroid rhetoric. But, um... pwned!
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#39
03-23-2005, 12:36 AM
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Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No, I don't agree. Not even close. [/ QUOTE ] He was easily the best position player of the 90s, the only two people even remotely close are Big Hurt and Griffey. He was, at his prime, an amazing left fielder. From 1990-1998, his lowest OBP was .406. From 90-98 he was never lower than 5th on the NL leaderboards, leading the league 4 times. From 1990-1998, he had a SLG below .550 once. He was never below sixth on the NL leaderboards, leading thrice. From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS was .914 - which lead the league in 1992. He was never below THIRD on the NL leaderboard, leading five times. From 1990-1998, his lowest OPS+ was 161, which lead the league. This measure compares park-adjusted OPS to the league average - 100 would avarage. He lead the league 4 times during this period, and was never below third. He also made the top ten in steals in the NL 7 times during this period. For his career until 1998, he had a career OPS+ of 164 in 8100 atbats. This would make him 9th all time, behind a few people that it would be hard to make a case being better than Bonds - Shoeless Joe (who had 1000 less PAs and was out of the game at 30), Dan Brouthers (who played the overwhelming majority of his time pre-1900), and the upper echelon of position players - Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Williams - most of whom played pre-integration, in a league without talented black hitters, making it easier to dominate their leagues. Please list your top ten list of position players, all time, start of the majors-1998, and I'll ridicule it for not including Barry. [/ QUOTE ] You can't compare numbers in the 90s with numbers in other eras. You seem to know baseball. You should know that. He is one of the top 10 today because of what he has done from 1999. 292 HRs since then, for example. He was not as of 1999. Ruth Gehrig Mays Mantle Musial Ted Williams Honus Wagner Rogers Hornsby Cobb DiMaggio Off the top of my head, for starters. As of '99, Bonds didn't rank ahead of a single one of them. And I'm sure I am not the only one that thinks so.
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#40
03-23-2005, 12:42 AM
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Re: I feel bad for Barry Bonds
[ QUOTE ]
You can't compare numbers in the 90s with numbers in other eras. You seem to know baseball. You should know that. [/ QUOTE ] He showed how Barry dominated the league for the 90s, not how his raw numbers compared to those of past eras. Statistics as they compare to one's peers is a pretty powerful gauge of one's dominance.
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