Life in Liberated Iraq

[Kenrick]

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In other words, you don't have any problem assuming that all Iraqis who fight against the U.S. occupation are "vicious," "ruthless" "terrorists barbarians," "sick barbarian cutthroat thugs,"

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I keep hearing that the majority of those fighting Americans and allies are Saudis, not Iraquis. And, really, why would the majority of Iraquis *not* want Saddam gone? You'd think almost anything would be better than him.

[Chris Alger]

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I keep hearing that the majority of those fighting Americans and allies are Saudis, not Iraquis.

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False, it's almost certainly less than 5%. The White House and the right-wing media, especially Fox, have been peppering the news with "foreign fighter" propaganda, but you won't actually hear them say that the majority are foreign, or even that it's a high percentage. (This is one of those subtle tactics where the media will disseminate implant an idea without actually articulating it, understanding that when the news is couched a certain way, people unconsciously read between the lines).

The U.S. military, however, which has to have accurate facts to do its job, concedes that the foreign presence is minimal. I couldn't find it but there was a story a few weeks back how the U.S. recruited Iraqis by telling them that their opponents would be foreign. When the recruits discovered otherwise during a firefight, they put down their arms. The U.S. general in command acknowledged that the recruiting tactic was a mistake.

Anyway, a sampling from several sources:

"Of the more than 1000 men aged between 15 and 55 who were captured in intense fighting in Falluja last week, just 15 are confirmed foreign fighters, General George Casey, the top US ground commander in Iraq, said on Monday."
aljazeera, 11/26/04

"Elsewhere [outside Falluja] in Iraq, U.S. military commanders say foreigners have an even smaller role in the insurgency. In Baghdad, Maj. Gen. Martin Dempsey has said foreigners account for just 1 percent or so of guerrillas. Of 8,000 guerrilla suspects jailed across Iraq, only 127 hold foreign passports, the U.S. military said. In the south, no one has suggested that foreigners pack the ranks of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's al-Mahdi Army. The group, which has fought U.S. and allied troops across southern Iraq, is made up of Shiite Muslim radicals, many of whom hail from the slums of Baghdad. In March, Dempsey called the idea that foreign fighters were flooding Iraq 'a misconception.'" AP, 5/3/0

"Since last August, coalition forces have detained 17,700 people in Iraq who were considered to be enemy fighters or security risks, and about 400 were foreign nationals, according to figures supplied last week by the U.S. military command handling detention operations in Iraq. Most of those detainees were freed after a review board found they didn't pose significant threats. About 5,700 remain in custody, 90 of them non-Iraqis."
USA Today, 7/6/04

As for your statement that Iraqis should want to be rid of Saddam, that's undoubtedly true for the vast majority. Many of those, however, resent trading a dictatorship for foreign occupation and political domination. Consider, for example, the number of laws that Iraqis must comply with that were nothing more than edicts handed down by Bremer. Look at the amount of Iraqi oil money the U.S. took and can't account for. Think about how U.S. troops shooting unarmed demonstrators and bombing hospitals appears to patriotic Iraqis, even those who hated Saddam.

[zaxx19]

As for your statement that Iraqis should want to be rid of Saddam, that's undoubtedly true for the vast majority. Many of those, however, resent trading a dictatorship for foreign occupation and political domination. Consider, for example, the number of laws that Iraqis must comply with that were nothing more than edicts handed down by Bremer. Look at the amount of Iraqi oil money the U.S. took and can't account for. Think about how U.S. troops shooting unarmed demonstrators and bombing hospitals appears to patriotic Iraqis, even those who hated Saddam.

LOL LOL LOL LOL YOU HAVE DONE LOST YOUR MIND.....LOL LOL LOL [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[bholdr]

...anything but death...

[bholdr]

Despite your/my best efforts, i still can't tell if you're joking or not...

[bholdr]

more's the pity; we are unable to even discuss things like rational people anymore.

for shame.

[ToneLoc]

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I don't have a problem with calling vicious, ruthless terrorists "barbarians". Everyone should know the term is directed at that specific bunch and not at all Middle Easterners.

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Would you call american soldiers guilty of torture barbarians?

[bholdr]

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How about "savage evil bastards"?

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the word 'bastards' conotes people who had unmarried parents at the time of their birth. it's wrong and hateful to describe people's ancestry as such without approiate proof. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


that'll do just fine.


edit: though i think the term 'evil' is best reserved for slasher movies and religious discussions. thinking in terms of good vs. evil is such a midevil way of looking at things. grey areas. no black and white. all grey areas.

[BCPVP]

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(This is one of those subtle tactics where the media will disseminate implant an idea without actually articulating it, understanding that when the news is couched a certain way, people unconsciously read between the lines).

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1) This is probably the biggest problem people have with Michael Moore and his brethern.
2) I hope you're not insinuating that Fox News/right wing media are the only ones guilty of this...

[bholdr]

or, more approiatly, it never existed in the first place. To find real objectivity in news reporting, one must either a: remove the bais through balancing their sources (pay attn to BOTH moore and fox, both the NY times and the WSJ) and b: read the most objective sources out there, the CSM, the AP wire, BBC international, etc..


or go gonzo. R.I.P HST.