If you could control education in the US... - Page 4

elwoodblues · #31 02-07-2005, 01:52 PM

I'm not asking for specifics, in general how do you think you could fairly pay according to results? (Note that this is different than paying different disciplines of teachers differently - i.e. math more than p.e.)

jakethebake · #32 02-07-2005, 01:53 PM

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I'm not in the business of defining how to measure results for different professions and I must say I'm not a huge fan of standardized tests. That being said, there must be some way to measure results and I find it incredibly stupid to pay a person a ton of money just because he's been around for a while. Every other profession in America has figured out the best method for measuring the effectiveness of the employees in their specific field and I see no reason why teaching should be any different.

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I agree with your premise. But the teaching "profession" is primarily employed by the government. The government's definition of "effectiveness" is rarely a good one for anything. There are so many constitiuents to please on this issue there will never be a consensus on what "results" entails. So it's doomed to mediocrity. This is only part of the reason I think we should get rid of government-run schools.

ddollevoet · #33 02-07-2005, 01:55 PM

Want results? Privatize all schools.

If the schools do not provide a satisfactory level of education, parents would send their kids to another school. Bad schools become insolvent. Good schools thrive.

BeerMoney · #34 02-07-2005, 01:57 PM

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I'm not asking for specifics, in general how do you think you could fairly pay according to results? (Note that this is different than paying different disciplines of teachers differently - i.e. math more than p.e.)

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How about of you had assessors RANDOMLY drop in on teachers to see what they're doing that day?

Teachers generally go unwatched. Most professions don't have this luxury. If you asked teachers to agree to this, they'd say no........ But, of course they'd rather go unwatched than watched, wouldn't you?

elwoodblues · #35 02-07-2005, 02:01 PM

And assess them on what? Ultimately if you want merit based pay you have to define what the merits are and how you will rate them.

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Teachers generally go unwatched. Most professions don't have this luxury.

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First, I disagree that teachers go unwatched. They are watched by the administrative staff, their colleagues, by their students, and by the parents of the students.

Second, I would suggest that most professionals are not watched to the degree you are suggesting. That's part of what differentiates a professional from other jobs.

El Barto · #36 02-07-2005, 02:05 PM

The number one thing we can do in the early grades is STOP using the Whole Language method of teaching reading. Its use is the number one reason so many children are not reading up to their grade level especially in economically disadvantaged areas.

Learn More Here

BeerMoney · #37 02-07-2005, 02:10 PM

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And assess them on what? Ultimately if you want merit based pay you have to define what the merits are and how you will rate them.

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Teachers generally go unwatched. Most professions don't have this luxury.

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First, I disagree that teachers go unwatched. They are watched by the administrative staff, their colleagues, by their students, and by the parents of the students.

Second, I would suggest that most professionals are not watched to the degree you are suggesting. That's part of what differentiates a professional from other jobs.

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Again with the nitpicking, maybe professional wasn't exactly the correct term.. but again, i think you knew what i was saying.

I am a teacher, and i have very little supervision over me. There are others with the same title as me who do nothing to challenge their students. They give the same exact test as a practice test. They teach for 1/2 the class.. They are given the same pay as i am.

So, where in most jobs, you may not have a supervisor watching over you like at McDonalds, there is at least someone there to see if you are AT LEAST DOING YOUR WORK.

As far as ASSESSING the teachers goes...... Do they have a well laid out lesson plan? Are they assigning HWK? Are students actively participating? Or, whatever measures these people decide are important and the teachers are aware of.

BeerMoney · #38 02-07-2005, 02:13 PM

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The number one thing we can do in the early grades is STOP using the Whole Language method of teaching reading. Its use is the number one reason so many children are not reading up to their grade level especially in economically disadvantaged areas.

Learn More Here

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I was a BigBrother to a kid who could not read. He was 11 years old, and no one was trying the phonics approach.. It truly frustrated me. What a disaster.

GuyOnTilt · #39 02-07-2005, 02:13 PM

My knee-jerk reaction is to say privatize. I have very little knowledge about the public school system though. What are the arguments for/against this?

GoT

LaggyLou · #40 02-07-2005, 02:25 PM

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If you were in control of everything, what changes would you make?

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There needs to be some system to identify the truly gifted students. You know, those with 140+ IQ's and 1450+ SATs. Those students could then be given an early introduction to poker, so that they don't have to go through the time and hassle of graduating from high school only to get to college and find that all of the other 19-year-olds are boring to someone with their intellectual prowess.