The Raymer incident finally made my morning paper - Page 4

Noo Yawk · #31 12-30-2004, 07:34 PM

For those of you that think Greg made a bad decicision, consider that once attackers have you contained and out of the view of any witnesses, your chances of serious injury or death go up dramaticaly. Anyone in law enforcement will vouch for that.

As an aside, glad your ok and I hope the guy that got caught ends up with an angy, but frisky cellmate named big gay Jim.

JohnG · #32 12-30-2004, 10:55 PM

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Actually I'm saying everyone connected witht he story is lying and/or xaggerating for their own purposes.

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And why would that matter to you if they were?

jedi · #33 12-30-2004, 11:25 PM

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These guys never asked me to hand over my money. They quite clearly had a plan to get me into my room and tie me up.

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So the article said they just wanted the money. Raymer keeps claiming they wanted to kidnap him and/or push him in to the room and kill him...He would have been better off not embellishing.

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He's not embellishing anything. He thought they were trying to kidnap him or push him into a room. If they just wanted money, they probably would have clubbed him over the head and taken the money right there.

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I'm glad you beleive the New York Times. Their reporter is so much more believable than the guy that was actually there. [/sarcasm]

gcoutu · #34 12-30-2004, 11:35 PM

There should be an age verification process to post here and all those that are 14 and under, or act that way shouldn't be allowed on the forum.

Tek you are a worthless child and it is insanely obvious that you are jealous of Fossilman. Get a life, job, study or something and stop littering the forums with garbage about how you weigh less than Greg and how jealous you are to not have 15 min. of fame to talk about.

In a situation like this peole have a Flight of Fight response. It appears that Greg chose to fight. Being a sizeable man and I'm sure he is strong he did what made sense to him at the time. Gladly, a good person was not hurt and things turned out well. I'm a tough mofo and I would have given up the loot but I have never been in a situation like that either so who knows.

EliteNinja · #35 12-31-2004, 12:26 AM

Yeah, if I were in such a situation, I also would have fought back since I was in a semi-public area where I would yell for help and there may have been people around. I wouldn't want to be stuck in a private room and killed.

I'm happy that everything turned out alright and you were not hurt, Greg.

dakine · #36 12-31-2004, 01:19 AM

I archived the Las Vegas Review Journal from 12/20 (crime committed) through 12/27. There was no mention of the robbery. Oooo...,the power of the "Bellagio."

JoeC · #37 12-31-2004, 02:50 AM

great post

PoBoy321 · #38 12-31-2004, 03:39 AM

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[sarcasm]
I'm glad you beleive the New York Times. Their reporter is so much more believable than the guy that was actually there. [/sarcasm]

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It was actually the New York Daily News, not the New York Times. This makes a huge difference, just because the NYT is one of the most highly respected periodicals in the world, and the Daily News is basically a tabloid rag.

That being said, yeah, I'd believe Greg over a newspaper any day of the week on this matter, just because he's one of 3 people in the world who were there to tell us what really happened.

nothumb · #39 12-31-2004, 03:41 AM

Hi Greg,

Glad to hear you are okay.

Your logic after-the-fact is clear and I understand your thought process. I think a lot of people don't understand that (at least, when I have been in a similar situation) your mind does not have time to review all the contingencies and proofread the argument defending your actions, etc. You make a decision and later on, when you find yourself alive and well, the reasons for that choice become clear to you. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I have found that in extremely tight situations I have a survival instinct that is very accurate and reliable, and I do not second guess myself. I don't know if you had been in such a spot before, or considered the possibilities in advance and made a decision, or if you simply have a gut instinct to get out of violent situations in one piece. I do think, however, that a lot of people who have not had the opportunity to make such a decision have a hard time getting any perspective on it.

NT

3rdEye · #40 12-31-2004, 04:54 AM

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for everybody who wants to debate my decision, is to read this post by Wayfare. He points out why he disagrees with the decision, and does so in a reasonable and polite manner. I suspect his chances of getting laid are about 20x greater than these other posters who are so consistently rude and disparaging in their comments.

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Greg, in the split second that you had to make the decision, I am curious as to why you chose to fight instead of just handing over the money.

Obviously you didn't do any EV calculation, but you have to think that if they can walk off with $1000 that they are less likely to kill you. I am surprised you thought that it was so likely they would kill you because you had seen their faces that you would risk a confrontation like that.

I am very glad it turned out all right. If it happens again, may I suggest just tossing your wallet at them and running the other way?

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These guys never asked me to hand over my money. They quite clearly had a plan to get me into my room and tie me up. Now, once they did that, they may have just taken my money and left me there to be found a day or 3 later. Or, they might have decided that since I'd seen their faces, I should be killed to keep me quiet. I decided the chances that they would make this cold decision to kill me were greater than the chances that I would die in the act of fighting them off. Again, I may have been mistaken in that judgment, but I do believe it was a reasonable decision.

I hope that you, Wayfare, and the other nice people on this forum, do not ever have to face such a split-second decision yourself. To the not-so-nice people, well, I do not wish them to be hurt, but I'd enjoy seeing them deal with a situation like this, and finding out how many would piss themselves.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

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Hey Greg,

Given that your attackers seem to have known who you were, do you think that they would actually have been willing to kill you? If you were (god forbid) murdered under such circumstances, it would be an international story, and law enforcement would stop at no end to ensure they were caught (not that they would necessarily think so far ahead, but I would think that the archetypal criminal would be aware of this).