Preflop Bot

[emonrad87]

I haven't read all the replies.

I would say that this is unethical because, as you say, it enforces your discipline. Thus, it is an automated software that improves your game. Basically, if you could fold preflop all of these hands without the bot 100% of the time, it would be no big deal. But i think that because no human can actually do that, this is unethical.

[Subby]

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But i think that because no human can actually do that, this is unethical.

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No human could datamine tens of thousands of observed hand histories from Party either, but it seems accepted as completely ethical here.

Not bashing your point, just wondering where one draws the line between ethical and unethical. Is automation unethical? At what level?

[emonrad87]

That's a good point subby. However, I feel that the PT datamining is a lot different from this. PT datamining is like looking at a starting hand chart. The info is there, but the human mind must do the thinking and put the info to action. For example, we get many posts on this board and on the PT forum saying, "i've got all this data, how do i use it?". This bot is taking the human element out of the transferring the info to the action. Thus, it completely removes the human element, as the bot would play the same based on the same info whether the human was drunk, sleepy, normal, dead, etc. whereas the human would not.

Basically, i think the line should be drawn at the point that it removes the human element of USING the information given.

[Subby]

Good response and I think I tend to agree with you. There is a lot of potential in this guy's idea, as long as it isn't making the decisions for you.

[adanthar]

Why would a tight player want this thing? I wouldn't; I can fold KJo to a raise with or without this bot thingie, TYVM. Does it take how LAGgy the raiser is into account, too? If not, well, I hope it gets widespread so the TAGs can autofold to my EP A9s raises all day. Does it do blind defense based on the characteristics of the button/SB? If not, it just sucks.

On top of that, you add the chance that Party freezes your account; considering that poker's a second job for me at this point, I don't think that the risk divided by the potential gain is very +EV for me.

OK, so we've narrowed the thing's utility down to people who like gambling. Would any of them buy this? I doubt it, unless they want to get better already and then they're not the audience I care about.

Basically, I don't think your bot's all that interesting and the risk far outweighs the gain. Good luck, though.

On the other hand, as a former EQ player I'd definitely buy Bradley's EQ2 crafter [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Richard Berg]

If you read the most experienced response, you'll see it wasn't about widespread distribution, it was about a few high-priced partners. Even then, it turned out to be -EV.

Your software certainly isn't worth $5k, so I don't see why you're even considering "limited distribution" (whatever that comes to mean). You won't make any significant money, and you won't improve our play -- 2+2ers prone to tilt will have more leaks than just preflop. If someone wants to automate their play, let them write their own.

[gusly]

Well, right off the bat, this "bot" wouldn't cross the line according to your terms. Why? Because it doesn't completely remove the human element. It would only act preflop. And postflop decision-making is much more complex and valuable than preflop decision making.

And going one step further (or back, if you like), making the user define which hands to fold makes it completely ethical. How would inputting which hands you want to play preflop into this piece of software be any more unethical than referring to a chart next to your monitor?

[Subby]

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And going one step further (or back, if you like), making the user define which hands to fold makes it completely ethical. How would inputting which hands you want to play preflop into this piece of software be any more unethical than referring to a chart next to your monitor?

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Humans tilt, get tired, etc.. Starting hand bots don't. I *know* I am not supposed to limp with Axs UTG, but I just had my Aces cracked and am pissed. Oh great, the pot gets capped...well might as well call...c'mon 6%!!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[B00T]

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Why would a tight player want this thing? I wouldn't; I can fold KJo to a raise with or without this bot thingie, TYVM. Does it take how LAGgy the raiser is into account, too? If not, well, I hope it gets widespread so the TAGs can autofold to my EP A9s raises all day. Does it do blind defense based on the characteristics of the button/SB? If not, it just sucks.


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I was waiting for someone to make this point. I was just too lazy to type it out.

[The4Aces]

Anyone can look at 2+2 and the good 2+2 players wouldnt want it. If i were you i would just keep it tomyself. If you realease one of these and some other programer gets wind of it doing good and selling alot of copies they will make their own and probably sell it freely to anyone.