Semi Pro's.. Whats holding you back?

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
3. Potential to close doors on long term job opportunities.

[/ QUOTE ]

mike,

we all know you can make it as a pro, easily. but don't use "job" here. a "job" isn't a good enough reason not to go pro, but a "career" or business venture is. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Kenny

[fnord_too]

Here are some of my thoughts:

1. Jobs have many benefits: Health insurance (more the not being able to be refused because you are part of a group than subsidized cost), retirement benefits (I do not think you have nearly the options as a self employed person, though I could be wrong), social aspects, possibly contributing something to society, and jobs are very nice if you want to do something crazy like get a mortgage. (You need to show at least two years income in a field via tax tax documents for an income source to be considered by a mortgage broker, as far as I know. At least that's what mine told me last month when I was getting pre-approved for a loan.)

2. Poker is probably a -EV move. There are tax considerations (self employment tax sucks, US only argument, I am still weeding through all this), and benefit considerations. These pale I think compared to market considerations. What I mean is that the skill set required to thrive at poker is not very common, but very desirable in other fields. I think a lot of people who make a living off of poker could pursue very lucrative careers elsewhere. On the other side, there is a lot of phantom income from being a proffesional poker player I think. (Phantom income is a term used to describe non-monetary benefits, like being able to spend more time with your children, not having to be a sycophant to get ahead, etc.)

3. Steady jobs mitigate a lot of risk. This becomes increasingly important as one's resposibility (read that family) grows. Were I in my early twenties, without a wife and 1.5 children to support, this would not enter into the picture.

4. For me personally, though I have made a lot of money (by my standsards) so far from poker, I still do not know if I am skilled enough to make a steady income from it. I just don't have enough history.

As a side line, poker is great. The income is fantastic, and their is never too much pressure to perform. Also, it is a hobby that is intellectually stimulating. I think semi-pro is the way to go unless one either has not obtained a lot of external responsibilities, or has a spouse with a job that garners all the risk mitigating benefits mentioned above.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
less social time sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]


I have WAY MORE social time than EVER before. Whenever the GF is off work she can call and ask "hey, are you free for dinner?" and I can respond "hey baby...I think I can squeeze it into my entirely flexible schedule."



[ QUOTE ]
health insurance is a big one. in massachusetts at least, regulations mean that you can't find reasonably cheap insurance.


[/ QUOTE ]


I know that some states are outrageous on this.
My health-ins costs is roughly balanced out by the money I am saving by not driving a 40-minute commute each way every day. Gas prices kind of suck these days in case you haven't noticed. However, I'm in good health and have never smoked in my life. If I had significant medical issues where I really relied on the insurance than this would be a different story.



I've had a couple different jobs primarily both of which I enjoyed to varying degrees.
One was pretty tough, time-consuming and low-paying but I was extremely passionate about it and may get back into it now that I am a bit more flexible thanks to my online-poker career and income.
The most recent 'real' job I had was that of blackjack dealer at a casino for 8 months or so through April, 2004.
For the most part, I enjoyed it...but sometimes the supervisors were pricks or the players were blowing smoke in your face or you had to make a long commute into work when you really weren't feeling well...etc etc (typical work-place whining).

As it stands now...I work whenever I feel like it. As long as I have the discipline to average around 35-40 hours a week I should be fine.
My Mom wants me to help her move from Wisconsin to Florida next month. That would have been impossible at some jobs...or in the very least I would have been giving up a ton of vacation days and hoping the timing didn't coincide with something important at whatever company I worked for.
With online poker I just take my job with me and "work" a little bit here and there if I feel like it.
I don't have to ask an a-hole supervisor to get off for a week or two and I don't have to deal with him bitching "we really need you this week....are you even committed to this company??" blah blah blah.

I know not all jobs or bosses are like that....but many are.


Another thought - somewhere in there someone mentioned something about lack of physical activity and someone else responded that was their own damn fault.
I agree.
I able to run more than I have previously (except now because I pulled my damn calf-muscle).
I am also playing in an adult-soccer league (these guys take their crap seriously) and am freaking loving it.
Since my two previous jobs required a lot of work on weekends I have NEVER been able to take part in something like that....and I am the type of person that really enjoys things like soccer-leagues or raquetball, etc etc.

i am eating better and am in better shape then I have been in years.
There is obviously some stress involved with doing this full-time since it's possible to go long stretches in the red. But I find online-poker for income to be significantly less stressful than many other employment situations.

To be honest, I barely stress over it at all.
If I have a really bad week I just step back a level or two. If worse came to worse I could always get a "real" job again (which I might do anyway if the right situation presented itself) so I'm really not worried about 'losing everything' because it can't happen if I don't let it happen.

[BIGRED]

I'm also what most would consider to be a semi-pro.
I have a decent wage day job in IT and play on-line during my off hours. I started playing on-line as a beginner about a year ago and now I'm at a point where the income from on-line poker is starting to compete with the income from my IT job. On an hourly basis, I would say poker is killing my day job. So what's stopping me???

My reasons for not leaving my day job are pretty much in-line with what many have already mentioned. But I have one more which I don't think anyone has mentioned yet.

And that is, have I proven myself yet? Although I have been playing for a year, the majority of that time was spent at the low levels refining my game and building my bankroll. It is only during the last 2 to 3 months where I really started to take off. Is 2 to 3 months (avg 1.3K hands per day) long enough to know? In addition, with the exception of the 1st 3 months of the past year, I haven't had a losing month, although I have had losing weeks. Is this typical for a winning player or is it possible that I've been just very lucky? I've been at 5/10 6-max (on and off) for about 2 months now and as each day passes I'm beginning to grow more and more confident, but with the first child on the way, I'm not ready to put my livihood on the line.

Lastly, I have a friend who found out I was doing this and decided to get into it about 6 months ago. I would say he is just as able as I am but he is still in the red with no signs of improvement. He is always calling me and saying how the on-line games are rigged and he is just waiting for the day the switch gets turned on me at Party central. He says it in jest, but my point is why am I doing well, but my friend who has the same level of intelligence as I do, is failing at it?

So then does this prove that I'm doing something right and therefore probably could make it, OR I'm just lucky?

My goal right now is to maintain this pace at 5/10 and see if I can move to 10/20, while staying motivated enough at work to keep my IT job. When and if there comes a point when my poker income gets big enough to cover for the benefits I get at work (401K and Health) and provide the kind of income I'm getting now in my day job AND poker combined, then I will be more sure, but right now, if I can just hold back the temptation, I have no reasons to quit my day job.

[BusterStacks]

Um... because having poker as your main job sucks?

[Sponger15SB]

I have begun to at least somewhat consider dropping out of school at least for the time being if I continue to earn what I think I can earn playing online poker. I realllllllllly hate school and as you guys might have noticed I'm not exactly the smarted person in the world, I would be very suprised if I would ever be in a job that I like making 100k a year (and of course starting at a lowly 30-40k or something), and by all estimates if I 8 tabled (which I do now) for 30+ hours a week (which I almost do now), I could make around that, and I'm only 20 years old. Then use the money I made in poker to start a business or invest or whatever.

My mommy would kill me though! She taught for 20 years and is now a vice principal, I think she values an education.

[Kevin]

I get in 20,000 hands a month about 25hr a week 4 tabling.

With that said, I have a great job at 100k+, company car, great benefits, pension, 401k, etc. I have a huge mortgage and 2 young kids who like their toys and a stay at home wife who enjoys the finer things in life.

I really love the game, but I think I love it because it is all out of plan upside income. It is mad money for me and it buys things like landscaping and vactions that would be tough in budget.

I spent the last week in Bentonville and took my laptop with me to play online during my down time. I left Sunday night and got back tonight. During the week, I got in about 4500 hands and my win rate was better than normal (small sample, I know). It was amazing what could happen when no kids were tugging at me, no sit out times to put the little guys to bed - only to come back and a good game had collapsed, etc. I feel that I played some of my best poker ever the past week, I made good reads, I layed down the hands at the right time and made the right value bets and river raise with good but not nut holdings.

But, If I had my option to sit alone all hours of the day and play or deal with it as something that I do when I can get the hands in - but at the same time go play outside with the little guys, go to soccer games, etc., I wouldn't change the way it is for any amount of potential income in the world.

[4thstreetpete]

Grest thread.

A little info on me. I've been playing poker ever since I was 18 (i think) and loved it. I was a winning poker player back then and after taking a few years off, I'm back in the poker world for good, albeit this time it's online. I haven't hit a B&M casino in a long time.

I have a crappy job now anyways that hate so my day job has no bearing on my decision. There is that security that my bills will be paid which is good. I live in Canada so my health insurance is not even an issue, appologies to American posters. As for family and friends, I do not care too much as to how people think. However, gambling is frowned upon by my family. We have issues with relatives in the past who has lost their families, homes and other issues. Therefore I don't really bother to tell them what I'm doing just to avoid it altogether.

So what is really stopping me from turning pro? To tell you the truth I don't even know myself. I'm still relatively young (but not compared to most of the posters here at 2+2). I have no obligations but this may change soon.

Currently I'm working a regular 9-5 job and playing poker at night. I mulitable 4 tables of 15/30 and plan in the near future to eventually play 8 gradually. I'm doing ok now so I don't see the need to jump into it yet.

As far as bamkroll is concerned, even if I quit my day job I'll still have enough money to support myself for a very long time. I may look into getting some rental properties as a second source of income (thanks to a poster who mentioned it earlier in this thread), it's a good idea.

I read in the papers that Toronto is on the verge of becoming a world class city (which I do believe from all the celebrities that keep coming here like our film festival, and countless other new developments in the waterfront and downtown area) so even though it's still expensive to live here it's still relatively cheap compared to many places in the world. Real estate will only go up in value as we here in Toronto has already seen.

Ideally I would like to retire at 40. The possiblitity of turning pro is a consideration and I've toyed with it a lot in my head. I don't think I'll be able to do it because I don't see myself able to play for more than 4 hours a day everyday.

I think my real passion would probably be to move to vegas and one day pursue my dream. I still believe one of the best jobs I've ever had was working at the casino as a Pit Boss. I really loved it. The pay was good and I only had to work every 30 mins per every hour that I worked. Half hour on and then a half hour break every hour. I loved the fact that I was able to just chat and had fun with the players and signing them up for comps and stuff like that. Made some great friends at work too.
I've had other office jobs after that where I sat on my ass the whole day in front of the computer that I absolutely hated as well. Too bad I didn't know about online poker then. One day I will seriously consider moving to vegas to work maybe as a dealer perhaps and play poker at the casino and online. I guess that would still make me a semi pro.

I don't have any questions in my mind whether I'm good enough or not. I'm not saying this because I want to brag or anything, but I've been playing poker for years both at the B&M's and online and it's something I never think about anymore. I don't doubt my abilites and you should always believe in yourself. Everytime I sit on a table I always believe that I'm one of the favourites and it's a challenge to the other players on my table to take my money. I remember the first time I ever sat on a 10/20 table at the B&M, I was so nervous and so scared of the competition. I pretty much got runned over. I remembered the empty feeling inside as I busted out and leaving the table. I promised myself from then on afterwards that I would dedicate myself to improve my game and not to fear my opponents. This has worked out in spades.

For now at least I do enjoy playing poker a little bit every day. I don't know how I'd feel if I had to play it a lot everyday in order to pay my bills. I guess I still have this nervous feeling inside me to fear the unexpected. I don't know. My view may change in a few years so we'll see. For now I do enjoy the fact that I make a good six figure income on my 'part time job' while holding on to a 'full time job'. I still do wonder often how I'd do if I turn pro completely and had more time to focus on my poker. The answer may not be so obvious.

[Punker]

Its a "job" with limited advancement possibility.

[BIGRED]

[ QUOTE ]
Its a "job" with limited advancement possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]
If a person decides to play poker full time, it's going to be becasue of the money and the freedom. Who cares about "advancements"?