The Prisoner's Dilemma and Religion - Page 4

John Cole · #31 08-28-2004, 08:03 AM

And He would have come in handy at Woodstock.

ThaSaltCracka · #32 08-29-2004, 04:55 AM

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If you watched a man turn water into wine, what would you think? I know that non-religious people dismiss these stories as fairy-tales, but if they did in fact happen, you could see how people's belief in the Christian God has survived for so long

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two disclaimers:
1. I am Catholic
2. I went to Catholic school from 4th grade through HS.

I have a hard time believing a lot of things in the bible. For me, I think a lot of it is exagerations and propoganda. Do you really think Jesus turned wine in to water? If you do your a fool, but it is possible he did something else like povide a lot of wine for a wedding party. A lot of the stuff in the bible was written for a specific reason, and a lot of it is not accurate.

ThaSaltCracka · #33 08-29-2004, 04:57 AM

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Some smart guy realized all this a few thousand years ago and took a vacation up a mountain. That's the real story. I'll let others elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ] is that the "real story"? I didn't realize you were alive 2000 years ago.

BarronVangorToth · #34 08-29-2004, 07:23 AM

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Do you really think Jesus turned wine in to water? If you do your a fool

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If you believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that God created the Universe and everything in it, I don't think it takes too much faith -- or logic -- to conclude that a simple transformation is likewise possible. If you believe in the first premise, that is...

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

David Sklansky · #35 08-29-2004, 07:33 AM

If you believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that God created the Universe and everything in it, I don't think it takes too much faith -- or logic -- to conclude that a simple transformation is likewise possible. If you believe in the first premise, that is..."

Barron Vangor Toth

Actually it is far from automatic that an entitiy that could create the universe can turn water into wine by just snapping his fingers. There is a possibility that there is a far from omnipotent creator out there. All he needs is the power to traverse through more than 3 dimensuions to pull off almost any miracle. Just like the sphere in Edwin Abbot's Flatland

BarronVangorToth · #36 08-29-2004, 08:34 AM

AH..... Flatlands.

Simultaneously I was hoping that book would and wouldn't come up as it is a very vexing story, outside of its victorian commentary and (somewhat, although it's to be expected back in them thar days) misogynistic vantage point.

Is this true....

God is to us as the sphere is to the square in Flatlands?

Perhaps.

However, I would still maintain that if you believe a God created the universe that same God could likewise turn water into wine.

If you believe, obviously.

All of this, by the way, reminds me of something some wrestler said a few years ago regarding wrestling being "fake." He said, and I'm paraphrasing, that those that believe, no explanation is necessary, and that those that don't, no explanation is satisfactory.

I do want explanations, however -- and satisfactory ones.

Many, agreed, don't.

Oh, well, perhaps I should some day add yet another Flatlands sequel to the genre.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

Wahoo91 · #37 08-29-2004, 04:10 PM

if you read the bible it is quite clear that jesus explained to his disciples that he spoke in parables so that most people wouldnt understand it. and theres a similiar passage (which jesus might have referenced im not sure) in the old test.

so there. heh.

This assumes that the Bible has accurately documented the parables. How does anyone know that Jesus actually said these things and that the parables and other teachings were not manipulated by man over the 2000 years since these events have happened?

SenecaJim · #38 08-29-2004, 05:05 PM

I would not talk. Period. If my brother talks, I get 100% of the will. Plus, Dad din't mention he would be mad at revenge (he's ticked at the blabber anyway). So, I get out. I'm happy cause of dollars and brother is sad because (see Cain and Abel parable). If religion is a factor, I will then repent and ask forgiveness whether I believe or not, Kind of like buying blackjack insurance. However, nothing to lose whether anyone is out there or not.

busted_player · #39 08-29-2004, 06:15 PM

How does anyone know that Jesus actually said these things and that the parables and other teachings were not manipulated by man over the 2000 years since these events have happened?

=======================

reminds me of the joke about who wrote the iliad, odyssey.

it wasnt actually Homer like everybody thinks! no, it was actually a completely different greek poet!, er, whose name just coincidentally happened to be, er, Homer.

as for the bible, i think its way cool (too old to say hella, i hate that) that jesus had absolutely nothing good to say about any politician , preacher, lawyer, or banker.

Justin A · #40 08-31-2004, 05:08 PM

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It didn't make me happy. Had to stop listening to secular music, stop going to parties, stop chasing girls, stop doing a lot of things that made me happy. The inner-peace and feeling of purpose I've gotton from it has been worth it though.
Ask any of the disciples if giving up everything they ever knew was fun. Or having to suffer excruciating deaths was fun. Ask Paul if being imprisioned on an island was any fun. Not fun and doesn't make you happy but its worth it.

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How can it be worth it to you? It has to make you happy in some way, and since you say it's worth it, I'd wager you are happier now than you were then. IMO, doing all the partying and chasing girls is a very empty happiness.

Justin A