No free cards!

[BeerMoney]

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Sure, play looser in the $3/6 game, but don't get carried away with it.

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Well, I can't think of a stud game with a proportionally larger bring in....

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and then you cite $5/10, which has a proportionally higher bring-in. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Andy, I meant a proportionally smaller bring in. I hate making stupid mistakes like that...

[timmer]

a bare pair of 8's has almost no chance of holding up against a LL crowd like this. even if you make two pair you will likely lose to a better hand.

This is just one of a plethora of cases in poker where even though you might have the best hand Now it is correct to dump it.

Why? Because these piggys play so bad against a crowd especially a loose calling one.

Now if you think you could get it heads up I might agree with a bet or even a check raise. In fact I like taking a free card on fourth keeping the pot small and check raising 5th if conditions are agreeable much more than simply betting out on 4th and making a big pot. post oaks rairly ever get much respect from LL players. You think they drove all the way from Pacoima to fold? No one even brought up the possibility that by betting you could be checkraised here. LL players will slowplay pairs just because being tricky makes them feel like a superiour player. This is commonly known as FPS. In fact in many cases it would be correct to keep the pot small and try to limit the field or even win it on 5th.

sims dont do many hands due justice. Many writers have written about their ideas on this subject in all forms of poker. In fact 7CSFAP and as well as other works fully detail this conumdrum. this hand is a excellent example of these ideas. Poker asa whole is filled with similar ones.

Id love to go on but suppers ready

timmer

[Andy B]

I've been meaning to write more about this for almost a week, but I keep getting roped into discussions about twelve-card Omaha and the like. I am not going to sit here and say that betting fourth street is wrong, because I'm not entirely convinced that it is. I do think, however that betting fourth is inconsistent with limping in on third, and that is very important to have a consistent gameplan.

I think that everyone can agree that (85)8 is not a stellar hand. I think that we can also agree that (85)88 is moderately stellar. Whether (85)8 has enough of a chance to become (85)88 to be worth $1 is subject to debate. I have spent a lot of time in loose, passive $3/6 stud games, and I think that this is a slightly profitable hand. If you're opponents are kind enough to pay you off the whole way when you pair your door card, I think it's well worth that dollar. Also, in loose passive games, you will often get multiple opportunities to catch your Eight, as it will frequently get checked around on fourth and sometimes fifth and sixth. Even if this play is neutral EV, if it keeps you from falling asleep, I say do it.

I think that if you play this hand, you do so in the hopes that you get lucky. I don't think that catching the Trey qualifies. One nice thing about it is that it looks like a flush draw. You may well have the best hand, and betting might be +EV. I prefer, however, to forego this small edge in the hopes that I might get lucky and be able to exploit a larger edge on a later street. There is discussion about this sort of thing in Sklansky's tournament book, the gospel according to majorkong, etc.

If your hand is best on fourth street, it was probably best on third. Why is no one advocating raising third? Not that I am, by any means.

I think that this hand has generated so much discussion because it's pretty close, because many of you put a little too much stock in Roy West, and because Ray hasn't stepped in and set us straight.

[donkeyradish]

One thing I would say about marginal hands is that there isn't one way to play them.

You could do one thing half the time and a quite different thing the rest of the time and whichever you did would have its pros and cons.

[FeliciaLee]

Sorry I'm so late on responding. I have been tending to a family emergency for the last two weeks.

I am with you and Dynasty on this one. I bet.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]