Should You Quit Your Day Job? — Part I

[chezlaw]

Good luck, pity that Toronto is too far for me to pop round for lunch [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

chez

[4thstreetpete]

[ QUOTE ]
Good luck, pity that Toronto is too far for me to pop round for lunch [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

you'd be welcome anytime. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Khern]

Me too.

I Started playing professionally about a year ago. It's a grind at times, but I don't get the near allergic reaction to poker that I get to most other forms of work. I guess it's not for everyone, but I don't understand the urgency of the warnings that abound.


John Tollison

[Megenoita]

I wanted to chime in my 2 cents. It was commented that it takes a "genius" to be a pro poker player. I have a friend that I introduced into poker. He is married, was working at McDonald's at the time, sucks at math and in general grasps concepts very vaguely. To this day, I don't think he understands SSHE very well. Still, he beats 2/4 at a good clip. Hear me out--2/4 for him, 6 tables, 50 hands an hour each, he's making $28 an hour (including RB), $21 an hour after taxes plus certain monthly bonuses that pop up ($300-$500 worth at various sites), plus certain tournies he sometimes does, he's pulling in $3,500 a month after taxes. He was making $1088.00 a month at McD's. Going "pro" means different things for different people. Aren't most people making less than $28 an hour at their jobs?

Personally, I love poker as a side income. I don't feel pressure, I can build my BR, and I can save/invest more money. It's been fun playing on the side as opposed to when I was paying bills with that income. I just don't understand anyone who is saying that it's not easy to be a pro--anyone who wants to work at it can do it pretty easily. I think poker right now is the greatest income for the least amount of work that one can legally do.

M

[Al Schoonmaker]

The people interviewed were all B&M players. It said nothing at all that related specifically to online players.

However, the same general principles apply. For example, if you look at our forums, you will find many reports of online players who built bankrolls, but went busted.

Both the bustouts on the DVD and the online players who go broke tend to deny any responsibility for it. They were just unlucky or were cheated. They can't accept a painful reality: They don't play well enough to survive.

In fact, not many people play well enough to survive as full time pros, but LOTS of people think they can do it.

They are in for a rude shock.

Regards,

Al

[Megenoita]

Dr. Schoonmaker's reply reminds me of what I hear in many industries. In every industry, people who are already in it or a part of it seem to make it sound harder than it is (I don't think this is the motive of Dr. S; I think he's just seen a lot of broke people). I am tempted to do it, too, because there is pride involved. When I was learning about the diamond trade, I was told that it takes 12 years to become a gemologist. I was also told 4 years. When I researched it myself, I learned that one can do it in 6 months. In poker, I think 2+2 readers understand how being a pro is actually much easier than most people (especially non-poker players) think, not vice-versa. Quite frankly, the 2+2ers who play and go broke aren't 2+2ers; they've not truly studied nor made an effort to really become good. This industry is one where anyone can become proficient in an extremely short timespan, at least relative to the competition at a given level. I think most active people on this forum would agree with that assessment.

I have friends who I know will never be good at poker even though they say they love it and want to be really good--I see that they can't sit down and read TOP for 5 minutes. They'd rather gamble. They are the majority, but what I'm saying is that of the minority who really want to be good, the success rate is probably 99%.

M

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
However, the same general principles apply. For example, if you look at our forums, you will find many reports of online players who built bankrolls, but went busted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure lots of players start off lucky, build bankrolls, think they're brilliant and then bust out complaining about being cheated or blaming something or other - long may they keep coming [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

However, what I am questioning is whether your general principle applies to disciplined online players who have beaten the game for enough, over 100,000's of hands and have large enough bankrolls?

Can you provide any links to examples that make you so pessimistic about the chances of success?

chez

[4thstreetpete]

When I was 19, I worked as a dealer in charity casinos in Toronto. This was way before the poker boom. Our casinos would open at 12pm and close at 4 in the morning. I remembered the same players coming day in and day out to play poker.


At that time it just never occured to me that you could actually make a living playing poker. I remembered one conversation I had with a player who revealed to me he was a pro. He was there everyday, many days there for all 16 hours that we were opened. I always wondered what he did for a living. He told me he was a poker player and that was his profession. This kinda shocked at the time. I wasn't intrigued however. He told me it was a really hard life and it wasn't easy. I believed him but never really went in depth with him. This was my first encounter with anyone who did this for a living. I had absolutely no interest whatsoever. At that time it sure seemed to me like a pathetic existence. Maybe I was biased since I worked at the casino and saw my share of shady characters.

Flash forward 11 years and I can't believe I'm going to make the jump. Times have changed and I have changed. Nowadays you don't have to make the commute and play a LOT more hands when you play online. With so many bonuses and rakebacks available, it's very possible for a decent but not great player to make a living off poker. It is a lot easier now than it's ever been. Making money on the internet is just much more viable than just playing at B&Ms. I never thought in my wildest dreams that holdem poker would explode into the mainstream as it has today. This really is the golden age of poker right now.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, not many people play well enough to survive as full time pros, but LOTS of people think they can do it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Alan, doesn't the same hold true for anyone starting any home based business?

Wouldn't you agree that there are some people, who if they went into it with the right mindset and education, have a chance to actually increase their lifestyle?

Wouldn't you agree that someone who looked at playing poker as a business opportunity would have a higher chance of sucess than your average joe playing poker for entertainment/social value?

[Al Schoonmaker]

You wrote: "Wouldn't you agree that there are some people, who if they went into it with the right mindset and education, have a chance to actually increase their lifestyle?"

Of course, I agree. Some of my friends live very pleasant lifestyles from poker. The critical question generally is HOW MANY will improve their lifestyle?

One poster stated that 99% of the people with certain qualifications and experience could succeed, which is an absurd statement.

The critical personal question is what are YOUR chances? As you correctly pointed out, most people who start businesses expect to succeed, but many of them fail. The percentage varies between types of businesses, but in some businesses the failure rate is very high.

You also wrote: "Wouldn't you agree that someone who looked at playing poker as a business opportunity would have a higher chance of sucess than your average joe playing poker for entertainment/social value?"

Of course, I agree. The average Joe who plays for entertainment has no chance at all to make it as a pro. To succeed you MUST treat it as a business.

In fact, one reason some reasonably successful pros stop playing full time is that they don't want to treat poker as a business. It isn't fun.

Regards,

Al