Online cardrooms rake too much for their own good

[Rudbaeck]

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I have 4,500 players in my pokertracker.. 40.77% are winners. This has been pretty consistent all along through any period tested and what others have came up with.

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That means that less than 10% of your players are long term winners. There are about a million posts explaining why on these forums.

[randomchamp]

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I would be willing to bet any amount of money that if I were to hit 1 million hands in my database that at least 37% of players would be winners. Most people would quote 40% are winners in their pokertracker database. Not saying they are huge winners, but winners none the less.

On $2/$4 games the rake is a little less than $1/hand. Call it $1 hand for simplicity.

@$1/hand. average of say 50 hands/hour, the average person is raked $5/hour. Not bad for entertainment.

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PT data is bad for many reasons on this point - I'll let others explain why. I'll bet you $1000 that less than 37% of the people who have ever played at Party poker cashed out more than they deposited. Too bad they won't up the info though..... If you can get them to send it to you and it proves your point - I'll send you the grand. What % of players do you think deposit 100-500 dollars, lose it, and never come back? 10%? 40%? 80%? 95%?

[MicroBob]

Indeed....think of it like blackjack.


Hypothetical example:
If you have a huge casino with 1000 full-tables of 7 players each who are all flat-betting and just play general correct basic-strategy (not card-counting) then they are all at roughly a 1% disadvantage.

On each table:
after 10 hands each table has 4 players who are up a little bit and 3 players who are down. The players are off to a good start. The casino is still not sweating it though.

after 100 hands each table has 3 players who are ahead and 4 players who are down. This is roughly the same as having 40% of your poker-tracker players be ahead in the sample you might have on them.

after 400 hands each table has 2 players who are ahead and 5 players who are behind.

after 1200 hands each table has 1 player who is ahead and 6 players who are behind.

after 15k hands almost all players are behind because the 1% disadvantage just grinded them down too much.



I believe this example is appropriate to the discussion but others may find flaws in this comparison.

[mbpoker]

Average rake on 2/4 tables is closer to 50 cents. Just pick up some 2/4 table and watch for 30 minutes.

[flafishy]

You're insane.

I doubt very seriously that the rake on most online poker rooms is going to make or break any player.

[Awesemo]

Well the rake certainly isn't going to make any player. As for breaking players, if a player is a longterm loser because of the rake, they are in essence being broken by the rake.

[Homer]

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I doubt very seriously that the rake on most online poker rooms is going to make or break any player.

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Wrong.

[Synergistic Explosions]

Rake is cancer.

[Michael Davis]

"You're insane.

I doubt very seriously that the rake on most online poker rooms is going to make or break any player."

See Homer's reply. You're insane.

-Michael

[lefty rosen]

If you want to see what online cardrooms think about the average player look at what Party did in the last year. They layed off their props, they stopped the 10 percent to loyal old timers, they increased their small stakes rake and added short table NL thus destroying their juicy full games because short stakes causes more hands played and more rake. They added bad beat jackpots and double rake them. I can go on. They aren't alone Pokerroom gave a small rake back to players plus had the frequent player daily bonuses those are gone and Pokerroom increased their rake max on micros to 1.50. Also they added true micro tables to their site therby making their 1/2 full tables rock gardens when they used to be the best 1/2 games online..... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]