POLL: Breaking an Addiction

[craig r]

I know that all drugs have different effects on the mind and body, but in the end, addiction is addiction. Lots of cokeheads and heroin addicts go to AA. There is so much more to doing the drug than the acutal high. I have talked to a lot of (ex)addicts recently and from what I gather there isn't much difference between a smack addict and a sex addict. But, physically I think heroin is probably the toughest to quit.

I find it strange that you left alcohol off your poll. Considering that is the drug that is consumed in the most quantity and most likely now kills more people than cigs (I could be wrong).

I also find it strange that you left crystal off your list. When I lived in Oregon I had never seen so many tweekers. I don't know much about the physical addictiveness of this drug, but for those who want to stay high for a LONG time for a cheap price (compared to other drugs) this seems like the drug of choice. I know somebody below said that one has a 90% chance of becoming addicted to it, and I think that number is too high for any drug, but people love it. And in rural areas it is huge. And one can live a pretty long toothless, acne filled life using it.

craig

[Jeebus]

I'm not really around too much meth. I do livein Ky though so it should be all around me and I should think of it. I would have put it and crack in if I had thought longer.

Having known someone who was addicted to just about everything on that poll I 'll finally put up my thoughts. I definatly think meth/crack/heroin are the hardest to treat in the full on addict stage. By that point your body has become so attuned to working with those drugs in that quitting can seriously injure you. Plus those are the kind of drugs where you don't do much more than just use and sit and then sell some stuff to get more.
Alcohol runs a real close second here in that it is incrdibly addictive but it seems to have a higher rate of someone looking in the mirror and going forget it, no more drinking for me. Its physical withdrawl is alot worse than most drugs, but the mental side isn't there so much.

To the casual user/minor addict, I have to go with cocaine or cigarettes. They both provide that cure to boredom and become associated with nearly all other activities. It is this which makes it hard to quit.

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mini hijack, but is it true that medically shrooms have no ill effect on your body? Not including what you do while high, of course.

About the paranoia thing, honestly, I think that might be due to the type of weed you smoked. Im sure I could point you towards a strain that will give you the opposite of that type of high, but Im sure you really couldn't care less.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, shrooms are potentially dangerous. It is a poison. I know it can cause some problems with the brain. It is generally considered safer than LSD because the risks of "perma-frying are much lower, but you can take too many shrooms and have to go to the hospital for physical reasons.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

Perma-frying?
Psychedelics are the safest drugs you can take. The lethal dose of LSD is an order of magnitude or two higher than almost any other recreational drug. And they definitely don't affect the brain like people say. All that stuff is a myth.

[imported_The Vibesman]

I think it's cigarettes, and the reason why isn't the actual addictiveness of the product, but rather, how much you have to put up with it after you quit. With coke, heroin, meth, even alcohol to some extent, after you quit it is easy to avoid users. You just don't go where they congregate. Alcohol is worse, because so many restaurants have it and there are commercials on TV, but at least you can look away. With cigarettes, you can be driving in your car with the window open and smell the smoke of the guy in the car next to you at a light, or you smell the smoke of another pedestrian in the street, and bang, you want 'em. And they're available everywhere, you have to look at them when you buy a paper or magazine. People on TV smoke, in the movies, constantly, and watching them makes you want one. When people say cigs are tougher than heroin, they're referring to a higher relapse rate, and I think the fact that cigs are so ubiquitious plays a big part of that.

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's cigarettes, and the reason why isn't the actual addictiveness of the product, but rather, how much you have to put up with it after you quit. With coke, heroin, meth, even alcohol to some extent, after you quit it is easy to avoid users. You just don't go where they congregate. Alcohol is worse, because so many restaurants have it and there are commercials on TV, but at least you can look away. With cigarettes, you can be driving in your car with the window open and smell the smoke of the guy in the car next to you at a light, or you smell the smoke of another pedestrian in the street, and bang, you want 'em. And they're available everywhere, you have to look at them when you buy a paper or magazine. People on TV smoke, in the movies, constantly, and watching them makes you want one. When people say cigs are tougher than heroin, they're referring to a higher relapse rate, and I think the fact that cigs are so ubiquitious plays a big part of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line of thinking.

[Jeebus]

However doing lots of hallucinagens or really strong doses can leave small remnants on you. I know that I occaissonally smell the smell of Acid when I am sitting around, normally when I want a smoke. Also, I see small things behind me in dirty reflections and see shadows on a wall in a degree of 3d all which seems a result of constant use of mushrooms and acid for about 8 months. My mind seems fine, or maybe better than when i started but my perception of the world around me has been somewhat permanently altered. I could see how doing enough acid could permafry your brain.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mini hijack, but is it true that medically shrooms have no ill effect on your body? Not including what you do while high, of course.

About the paranoia thing, honestly, I think that might be due to the type of weed you smoked. Im sure I could point you towards a strain that will give you the opposite of that type of high, but Im sure you really couldn't care less.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, shrooms are potentially dangerous. It is a poison. I know it can cause some problems with the brain. It is generally considered safer than LSD because the risks of "perma-frying are much lower, but you can take too many shrooms and have to go to the hospital for physical reasons.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

Perma-frying?
Psychedelics are the safest drugs you can take. The lethal dose of LSD is an order of magnitude or two higher than almost any other recreational drug. And they definitely don't affect the brain like people say. All that stuff is a myth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said LSD was physically lethal. What I meant by "perrma-frying" is when you do to much LSD and/or shrooms you can really damage your brain to the point where you are almost always frying/tripping. This was definitely more common in the 60/70's. And to say that they don't effect the brain is not a myth. You never get "flashbacks"? They don't happen to me very often, but when they do it almost feels as if I am tripping again (I have never had a bad flash back). I agree that most things people say about LSD is a myth (like it could fck up your genes, etc...), but one builds up tolerance to it very quickly (like if you take a hit today and then try taking a hit tomorrow, it won't have nearly as strong of an effect as the first hit, so you have to take two, etc... If this goes on for a while it "could" cause damage to your brain.

craig

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mini hijack, but is it true that medically shrooms have no ill effect on your body? Not including what you do while high, of course.

About the paranoia thing, honestly, I think that might be due to the type of weed you smoked. Im sure I could point you towards a strain that will give you the opposite of that type of high, but Im sure you really couldn't care less.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, shrooms are potentially dangerous. It is a poison. I know it can cause some problems with the brain. It is generally considered safer than LSD because the risks of "perma-frying are much lower, but you can take too many shrooms and have to go to the hospital for physical reasons.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

Perma-frying?
Psychedelics are the safest drugs you can take. The lethal dose of LSD is an order of magnitude or two higher than almost any other recreational drug. And they definitely don't affect the brain like people say. All that stuff is a myth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said LSD was physically lethal. What I meant by "perrma-frying" is when you do to much LSD and/or shrooms you can really damage your brain to the point where you are almost always frying/tripping. This was definitely more common in the 60/70's. And to say that they don't effect the brain is not a myth. You never get "flashbacks"? They don't happen to me very often, but when they do it almost feels as if I am tripping again (I have never had a bad flash back). I agree that most things people say about LSD is a myth (like it could fck up your genes, etc...), but one builds up tolerance to it very quickly (like if you take a hit today and then try taking a hit tomorrow, it won't have nearly as strong of an effect as the first hit, so you have to take two, etc... If this goes on for a while it "could" cause damage to your brain.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

Um...no. You do not damage your brain. You do not build up a tolerance. And there's a huge difference between "flashbacks" and the damage you're talking about. Most people do not get flashbacks.

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
However doing lots of hallucinagens or really strong doses can leave small remnants on you. I know that I occaissonally smell the smell of Acid when I am sitting around, normally when I want a smoke. Also, I see small things behind me in dirty reflections and see shadows on a wall in a degree of 3d all which seems a result of constant use of mushrooms and acid for about 8 months. My mind seems fine, or maybe better than when i started but my perception of the world around me has been somewhat permanently altered. I could see how doing enough acid could permafry your brain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Smelling acid? I "smell" cocaine occasionally. It's normal. Associations are very powerful but attributing it to short term use (8 months in your example) is ridiculous. You're working with a "n" of 1 here. Your subbjective experiences.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not really around too much meth. I do livein Ky though so it should be all around me and I should think of it. I would have put it and crack in if I had thought longer.

Having known someone who was addicted to just about everything on that poll I 'll finally put up my thoughts. I definatly think meth/crack/heroin are the hardest to treat in the full on addict stage. By that point your body has become so attuned to working with those drugs in that quitting can seriously injure you. Plus those are the kind of drugs where you don't do much more than just use and sit and then sell some stuff to get more.
Alcohol runs a real close second here in that it is incrdibly addictive but it seems to have a higher rate of someone looking in the mirror and going forget it, no more drinking for me. Its physical withdrawl is alot worse than most drugs, but the mental side isn't there so much.

To the casual user/minor addict, I have to go with cocaine or cigarettes. They both provide that cure to boredom and become associated with nearly all other activities. It is this which makes it hard to quit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you about cocaine/cigs being very addictive as well. One "good thing" about cocaine is that you can function for a while without anybody really knowing. Cocaine doesn't really make you "out of it" like alcohol or heroin does. Generally the biggest damage done by cocaine use is to your checkbook (at least the first 5-6 months). And then, if you start running out of money, but want to continue, a lot of people end up moving on to crack, because it is much cheaper.

All of the drugs you mentioned are the toughest to quit. Crack and heroin especially if you are mixing alcohol with it. Which I guess a lot of people do with cocaine. When I had talked to counselors in the past (long ago past) they generally do not recommend quitting both without going to a hospital to make sure you will physically be okay. But, if you have a coke problem, you can quit without medical supervision. I am not saying to not go to a hospital, but your risk of dying from quitting is not really there. The risk is suicide. Of course, I think this is a risk from quitting all major drugs (including alcohol, but not pot or LSD). With cocaine your dopamines take forever to get back to a normal state, which puts people in an extreme depression. With meth, not only are your dopamines affected, but so is your serotonin level and one other chemical that I can't remember. I really don't know how heroin affects the brain.

I also think we could all debate which "hard drug" (including alcohol) is the toughest to quit, but they are all really hard to quit. And when it is all said and done, it is all the same. Your problem usually isn't a/the drug, but the addiction. And almost all addictions take on the same form of ritual, emotional problems, etc... I think the addicts biggest problem is that they are the starving beast with the big belly that can't ever be full.

craig