Law School

[WDC]

We played gunnar bingo. Just like regular bingo but you cover a space whenever one of the gunnars on your card volunteers an answer.

[ QUOTE ]
The main difference in going to an Ivy League school is when you get you have like 200,000 dollars of debt vs. under 100,000. Then you take your Havard JD and get an interview with a big defense firm or company and sitting next you is a guy who graduated in the top 10% from (Enter cheaper regional Public Law School)and you both have equal oppurtunity to get the job. But since he had to work his way through school and therfore interviews better gets the job over the snobby Ivy League guy who was a member of the crew team and never worked a day in his life.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is flat wrong. It couldn't be more wrong. Sickeningly wrong in the wrongest way that something could be wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

Law is about prestige. Firms will take the Yalie over the plucky 3rd Tier school graduate every time. Hell, the partners probably have more in common with the Yale guy anyways. If I had a firm, I'd hire the T3 guy, but I don't make the rules, I just play the game.

The main difference is that out of a highly ranked school you can get a job. Out of a lower-ranked school you'll end up either at McDonalds or doing insurance defense for $50k / year if you are lucky.

Again, I know people out of lower-ranked schools that are waiting tables and whatever else all while mired in debt.

Also, as far as debt, my debt load is going to be under $50k, and I'm at UVA for what it's worth.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you can try to get in an ivy school. heard they are easy,

[/ QUOTE ]

this is not true at all

[/ QUOTE ]

He meant that they are easy to pass classes in once you are admitted.

This is very true.

I'm a lawyer, but I still remember my law school experience. The first semester sucked bad. I don't ever want to work that hard again. I had no idea what I was doing and it was frustrating as hell. After that, it got easier. My 2L year wasn't too bad and I didn't do much my 3L year because I already had a job lined up and I had learned how to study.

Generally, the better school you get into, the better job prospects you'll have when you graduate. I believe around 20% of my class did not have a job when they graduated, so jobs aren't guaranteed. Also, many legal jobs start in the $40K to $70K range. If you want to make the big bucks starting out ($100K - $135K) you have to go to a big firm where you will work 10-14 hour days.

One of the problems with becoming an attorney is that if you find out you don't like it, there isn't much else that your degree qualifies you for. You can move to another field, but you'll likely receive no credit for your legal experience and will have to take a substantial cut in pay.

Another problem with the legal field is that there is generally an "up or out" policy at the big firms where you can make the most money. Maybe only 10% to 20% of incoming first-year associates go on to make partner. The rest of them get booted out or quit the firm somewhere along the line.

Moving on from a big firm wouldn't be so bad, but most exit options are going to require you to take a cut in pay. Many attorneys at the big firms want to go "in-house" to a corporation because in-house jobs generally have better hours (only a 40-50 hour work week). However, most in-house jobs require that the attorney take a cut in pay. So, the attorney may work himself up to making $225K at a big firm after five years and then desire (or be forced) to go in-house and take a cut in pay to something like $150K. That's still great money in most cities, but it can be quite a letdown from $225K

Check out these message boards to get a better feel for what it is like to be an attorney. If you think you'll want to go for the brass ring and a $125K+ job, read the "Greedy NY" board specifically:

http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-top.tcl

Edit: I just noticed that the first post on the first page from the above link is "I am gearing up for another all weekend work-a-thon." That pretty much sums up attorney life at a big firm.

[CollinEstes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The main difference in going to an Ivy League school is when you get you have like 200,000 dollars of debt vs. under 100,000. Then you take your Havard JD and get an interview with a big defense firm or company and sitting next you is a guy who graduated in the top 10% from (Enter cheaper regional Public Law School)and you both have equal oppurtunity to get the job. But since he had to work his way through school and therfore interviews better gets the job over the snobby Ivy League guy who was a member of the crew team and never worked a day in his life.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is flat wrong. It couldn't be more wrong. Sickeningly wrong in the wrongest way that something could be wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

Law is about prestige. Firms will take the Yalie over the plucky 3rd Tier school graduate every time. Hell, the partners probably have more in common with the Yale guy anyways. If I had a firm, I'd hire the T3 guy, but I don't make the rules, I just play the game.

The main difference is that out of a highly ranked school you can get a job. Out of a lower-ranked school you'll end up either at McDonalds or doing insurance defense for $50k / year if you are lucky.

Again, I know people out of lower-ranked schools that are waiting tables and whatever else all while mired in debt.

Also, as far as debt, my debt load is going to be under $50k, and I'm at UVA for what it's worth.

[/ QUOTE ]



Your experience is just alot different than mine. I happen to know for a fact that what I said is true of ALOT (maybe not all) of firms.

Just an example I currently have a friend who graduated from University of Houston Law in the top 10%. He applied for a entry-level associate position at one of the largest, if not the largest firm in Houston, Fullbright & Jaworski. This is a huge pregious firm with office all over the world as far as Hong Kong. The starting salary for their associates is close to 150. He got an interview. My statement is based on what he told me as well as my personal experiences with a medium-large firm over the past three years.

A senior partner told me that big firms will interview canidates from all the law schools, the difference is they will interview someone in the top 30% from Yale and only someone from the top 10% from UH.

The friend I told you about got the job and so did another girl who just graduated from Harvard. They make the same, they have the same advance potiental but he has remarkably less debt.

Education is what you make of it.


Oh another reason I said this is becuase my uncle just retired from Ansheur Busch were he was the head of their in-house legal division in which was one person below the CLO. Yeah he got his JD and his LM from UM Kansas City. the guys from Yale worked for him.

[Chobohoya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is flat wrong. It couldn't be more wrong. Sickeningly wrong in the wrongest way that something could be wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

Law is about prestige. Firms will take the Yalie over the plucky 3rd Tier school graduate every time. Hell, the partners probably have more in common with the Yale guy anyways. If I had a firm, I'd hire the T3 guy, but I don't make the rules, I just play the game.

The main difference is that out of a highly ranked school you can get a job. Out of a lower-ranked school you'll end up either at McDonalds or doing insurance defense for $50k / year if you are lucky.

Again, I know people out of lower-ranked schools that are waiting tables and whatever else all while mired in debt.

Also, as far as debt, my debt load is going to be under $50k, and I'm at UVA for what it's worth.

[/ QUOTE ]



Your experience is just alot different than mine. I happen to know for a fact that what I said is true of ALOT (maybe not all) of firms.

Just an example I currently have a friend who graduated from University of Houston Law in the top 10%. He applied for a entry-level associate position at one of the largest, if not the largest firm in Houston, Fullbright & Jaworski. This is a huge pregious firm with office all over the world as far as Hong Kong. The starting salary for their associates is close to 150. He got an interview. My statement is based on what he told me as well as my personal experiences with a medium-large firm over the past three years.

A senior partner told me that big firms will interview canidates from all the law schools, the difference is they will interview someone in the top 30% from Yale and only someone from the top 10% from UH.

The friend I told you about got the job and so did another girl who just graduated from Harvard. They make the same, they have the same advance potiental but he has remarkably less debt.

Education is what you make of it.


Oh another reason I said this is becuase my uncle just retired from Ansheur Busch were he was the head of their in-house legal division in which was one person below the CLO. Yeah he got his JD and his LM from UM Kansas City. the guys from Yale worked for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

This just in: New Englanders arrogant, water wet. More at 11.

[webmonarch]

[ QUOTE ]
Now I get it! Every law student is exactly the same! Not only that, but everyone has the same expectations and goals! Wow this whole life thing just got so much simpler!

Enjoy!

[/ QUOTE ]

So, was the point of this to waste people's time or to make some kind of valid point? If your intention was the latter you failed miserably.

Honestly, and seriously, can someone explain to me what the lure of posts like this are? What makes this kind of snide post worth posting? Is it to look witty? To pad post stats? I mean, there must be some kind of benefit, right? I just honestly don't get it.

[CollinEstes]

Yeah homeboy is probably right I live in Texas and Ivy League doesn't really mean [censored] to some of thes good ole boy [censored] partners.

[Chobohoya]

[ QUOTE ]
So, was the point of this to waste people's time or to make some kind of valid point? If your intention was the latter you failed miserably.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok you wasted your time replying. So that's a victory for me right off the bat. And yes I am wasting time at work. As for making a valid point... meh.

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, and seriously, can someone explain to me what the lure of posts like this are? What makes this kind of snide post worth posting? Is it to look witty? To pad post stats? I mean, there must be some kind of benefit, right? I just honestly don't get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

As for snide posts, why do you do it? I just think you're kind of a douche. Maybe that's accurate and maybe not, but it's my read given this thread (which is all I can recall ever reading from you.)

[ QUOTE ]
Your experience is just alot different than mine. I happen to know for a fact that what I said is true of ALOT (maybe not all) of firms.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are claiming this huge knowledge of all this by talking to one senior partner at one firm and having one buddy that did well out of a bottomfeeder school? I think you have a sample size issue here.

[ QUOTE ]
Just an example I currently have a friend who graduated from University of Houston Law in the top 10%. He applied for a entry-level associate position at one of the largest, if not the largest firm in Houston, Fullbright & Jaworski. This is a huge pregious firm with office all over the world as far as Hong Kong. The starting salary for their associates is close to 150. He got an interview.

[/ QUOTE ]

The big catch here is that F+J is a Texas firm and their HQ is either in Dallas or Houston. If you are very top of your class at UH you may have a chance at something like that. 95% of students won't even get an interview.

Here's an exercise- Wachtell is one of the most prestigious firms there is, probably #1 in terms of prestige. Go to http://www.wachtell.com/Page.cfm/Thread/Attorneys and see how many of them went to law schools that weren't prestigious. Not many. Go to F&J's page and look how many Harvard grads they have compared to Houston grads. Look at the employment rate and avg. starting salary for each school.

If you want to trade anecdotes I know a guy that was #1 in his class at Creighton law school (T3, higher than Houston.) He wanted nothing more than to work for a big firm in Denver. He's a good guy, interviews well, but they just did not make him any offers. He's stuck in Omaha.

[ QUOTE ]
A senior partner told me that big firms will interview canidates from all the law schools, the difference is they will interview someone in the top 30% from Yale and only someone from the top 10% from UH.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was more than likely trying to be nice to you when he said this. If the firm is interviewing only the top 30% from Yale, to get an interview there out of UH you'd better have a Nobel Prize under your belt or something. Some exceptions might be made if the firm is in Houston. If you go to UH, forget about working for a big firm not in Houston. 95% of the students can forget about working for a big firm in Houston.

[ QUOTE ]
The friend I told you about got the job and so did another girl who just graduated from Harvard. They make the same, they have the same advance potiental but he has remarkably less debt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your sample size is so off here it's not even funny. 1 guy at UH got a job at a Houston firm by being at the top of his class he was able to get an interview. Whereas the girl from Harvard could have worked anywhere she wanted and the interview was guaranteed to just about anyone at Harvard. [censored], I interviewed with F&J (among other bigtex firms) and I'm middle of my class.

Out of Harvard you are guaranteed to have a lot of options. Out of U of Houston there's a 90% chance you won't have any options.

Education is what you make of it.


[ QUOTE ]
Oh another reason I said this is becuase my uncle just retired from Ansheur Busch were he was the head of their in-house legal division in which was one person below the CLO. Yeah he got his JD and his LM from UM Kansas City. the guys from Yale worked for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's old. The legal profession has changed 100% since he began his career. The advent of biglaw changed everything.