I don't want to Hold'em

[BottlesOf]

If you can up your frequency, I can easily see you cracking my top 5 list of favorite posters.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
how many outs does miller say AK to a rag flop have? you read it every day; check and report back. that's how much future it has.

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As I understand Miller he says that AK has three outs because of the chance that someone holds KK or a QQ with a queen on the board he says that the outs must be discounted and should be played at 1.5

[crownjules]

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Ok, I am learning the game according to my plan. I have a question I have not seen addressed by the books or the forum.

I am in a hand with AKs. I get to the flop and it is junk, pure junk. Now the books show this hand and it allways turns out well, but in real life it just is not the case. I have been folding but wonder what it says to the table. Maybe they figure I was chasing with bad cards or that I was chasing with good cards. Do you think it matters? My understanding on this hand is that it is worth a raise and possibly a reraise considering possition and the other players habbits. So if I have bet the hand strong what message am I sending the table if I fold. A few times it has been checked to me and I still folded because I really did not see the wisdom in playing the hand further even with a free card because if an A came I would tip my hand when I bet. Just looking for some thoughts on this. Thanks

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Don't fold a free hand. Ever. What if the next card gave you the best hand? You just threw away a pot.

That being said, your statement about betting an A/K and giving away your hand needs to be reevaluated. You raised preflop. What do you think most of your opponents are going to put you on? The standard players at low limits (I'm taking a shot this is where you're playing) will assume AK or high pocket pair. Even when you do bet out on the A/K, you'll probably get a caller or two hoping they'll hit their miraculous two outer. Don't give them the legitimate odds to draw out on you (infinite if you check through), even if you do broadcast "I have Kings/Aces!"

Push your AK on those rags until you're given reason not to. You want to maximize your winnings when you are likely to have the best hand. AK should be a big winner for a good poker player.

[Dave H.]

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Secondly, the fact that you have rags on the flop is even more reason to bet out because you probably have 6 outs to the best hand. If someone shows a lot of strength, then and only then would I consider backing down even if the pot odds don't quite give me what I need.

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I didn't notice until now that your AK was suited. So that would mean that you probably have AT LEAST 6 outs to the best hand assuming no one else shows strength with a raise. That gives you even more reason to bet out, at the very least, on the flop.

[jojobinks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how many outs does miller say AK to a rag flop have? you read it every day; check and report back. that's how much future it has.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I understand Miller he says that AK has three outs because of the chance that someone holds KK or a QQ with a queen on the board he says that the outs must be discounted and should be played at 1.5

[/ QUOTE ]

without having my book in front of me, i've got to say that's just not true. give a page number please, and a quote, where he says that you need to discout your 6 outs by 50% b/c of the possibility that someone's made top set or has KK.

you probably have at least 4 outs. and your opponents probably weren't improved by the flop. and some of your opponents will probably fold to your bet. and i guess you should usually bet here. checking is second best. folding is the worst choice, and it's not close.

[rickr]

[ QUOTE ]

That being said, your statement about betting an A/K and giving away your hand needs to be reevaluated. You raised preflop. What do you think most of your opponents are going to put you on? The standard players at low limits (I'm taking a shot this is where you're playing) will assume AK or high pocket pair. Even when you do bet out on the A/K, you'll probably get a caller or two hoping they'll hit their miraculous two outer. Don't give them the legitimate odds to draw out on you (infinite if you check through), even if you do broadcast "I have Kings/Aces!"


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Close but wrong. At low limits the second you bet everyone knows you have AK, and only AK. It's the only hand that's raised preflop. Don't you know that? How many times have got someone all-in holding KK or AA and at the end of the hand, whether they sucked out on you or not, have you had to listen to "Oh I put you on AK". Your big pockets are cracked mostly because of this. How many of these monkeys would call your reraise with junk if they believed you had rockets. They call because they know you are on a draw too. See how that works? lol
To the op. AK wins unimproved. Raise it preflop. Bet it flop. If someone shows strength, slow down. It wins lots of little pots, and some big against the A any x mentality. You lose more not believing they have you beat than you do betting it.

Later,
Rick

[ILL34GL3]

If you're afraid to bet out with an AKs on a rag flop, I'd have to guess that your bankroll is too small and you're playing scared.

[CORed]

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A few times it has been checked to me and I still folded because I really did not see the wisdom in playing the hand further even with a free card because if an A came I would tip my hand when I bet. Just looking for some thoughts on this. Thanks

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This statement shows that you are just too stupid to play poker. Quit immediately.

[jedi]

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Yes, I have SSH and read it almost every day.

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I think you need to read "Fundamentals of Poker" and maybe "Hold Em Poker" before continuing on with SSH. Almost everything you've written regarding AK play is completely wrong.

[Sarge85]

Ok Buc -

You're catching some flack here so I'm going to give you some really general advice with AK - very general, this won't cover every situation....( but it's got to be better than folding when it's checked to you)

(You didn't say what limit your playing so I will assume a Party 1/2 table for sh*ts and giggles)

PreFlop
<ul type="square">[*]Raise from any position[*]Re-raise from any position in a raised pot (including blinds)[*]If it's three bets to you -cap with AKs call with AKo[/list]
Flop
<ul type="square">[*]Bet if you hit any Ace or King.[*]Bet any four flush, or OE Str8 draw – get multiple bets in if possible.[*]If there is a bet in front of you, and you have TPTK - Raise[*]If you miss, and you are either the SB-MP, with multiple bettors to act after you - CHECK. - If the flop has no broadway cards Check/Call - If the flop has broadway cards your probably best to Check/Fold.[*]If you miss, and your are MP3-Button, with multiple bettors in front of you - CHECK. Take the free card.[*]If you miss, and you are either SB-MP, with 1 or 2 callers after you - it's a total judgment call based on the texture of the board. If it's coordinated in any way - Check/Call or Check/Fold[*]If you miss and you are MP3-Button, with 1 or 2 bettors in front of you - bet if you think you still have the best hand. Check board texture.[/list]
Turn
<ul type="square">[*]Bet if you still have Top Pair[*]Bet if you hit your Ace or King if it was checked to you and you improved.[*]If you don’t improve and are check to, check it through[*]If you don’t improve and are bet into – fold (assuming you don’t have other outs to a straight or flush][*]If drawing to a straight or flush – call[/list]
River
<ul type="square">[*]Bet if you still have top Pair[*]Bet if you hit your flush, straight.[*]Check-fold if you are unimproved and bet into[*]If you spike an Ace or King on the river – it will be player/board/action dependant on if you bet or raise[/list]
Remember this is all very general advice. It by no means is comprehensive on how to play AKo or AKs in every situation. As my poker coach told me AK is a 2:1 to make top pair. Which means your only hitting one third of the time, but of that 33% of time it will hold up often enough to show a long term profit. Largely from bets that you get in PF and on the flop (when you hit).

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]