Volume I Corrections

[ptmusic]

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Whatever man. There is one reason I buy 2+2 books almost exclusively for poker and its because they have the best content. Thus I am willing to put up with some errors. Thats pretty much the whole meaning behind go read other poker literature. Sorry I had to explain it to you.

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No, the point is that the asshat publishers and authors of this company are so busy patting themselves on the back that they don't have time to acknowledge customer complaints. They figure they can tell them to piss off and all of their groupies on this board will convince the complainer otherwise.

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Ok, I've had enough. Only Why - as of now, you've made 23 posts here, and I've read over half of them. EVERY SINGLE POST OF YOURS THAT I'VE READ HAS BEEN A HARSH CRITICISM OF 2+2.

Everyone: please take what Only Why says with a grain of salt, because he obviously has an axe to grind.

I have been critical of 2+2 in the grammar department, by the way. Once or twice I may have even been a bit snide about it. But from me, it's like a brother goofing on a brother he loves and respects, while hopefully getting a positive criticism across in the process. From you, I can feel the hatred coming through my laptop screen.

I am VERY impressed with Mason and Ed's posts in this thread. What they are doing puts them another step above the competition.

Go ahead and criticize, but do it nicely, and balance it with some other posts, or GET IGNORED!

-ptmusic

[avatar77]

I have to agree with PTMusic...
Can we blame Mason and the rest of the Twoplustwo authors if guys like Only Why would come to this site only to land pot shots at Twoplustwo. If you are going to criticize, then do it constructively - that is what this forum is for. Not to bash the staff for every mistake they make in text..errors happen..especially in projects this large.

You can not find any University level textbooks without errors in the first printing - how is twoplustwo any different.

Guys like Only Why are just hypocrites...they come to this forum to bitch and complain about everything.. yet they take the time to visit the site and buy the books. Dude, if you got something to say, say it constructively - o/w how can you expect twoplustwo not to be defensive.

Do you guys see a forum like this done by Cardoza or Lyle Stewart?

Twoplustwo have a standard that is heads and shoulders above the rest of the industry but minor errors such typos, spelling, grammar, etc..happen..get over it.

The bottom line is this: HOH is still readable and the vast majority of the errors are very minor and do not impair the readability of the text.

[larrondo]

Well, an awful lot has been written about this. Here’s my two cents: I’m glad Mason posted the fixes for Vol 1. My feeling is that these fixes really only represent the tip of the iceberg. Most of the problems involve clarity or minor details, and don’t invalidate the excellence of the book. However, I’ll give you an example from page 314, not because it’s the most glaring or bad, but because it’s the page I happen to be on.

The flop is 765, two diamonds. Your opponent bets. I quote: “It could be better, if three different suits were represented or there were no possible straight draw. You shouldn’t be worried that your opponent stayed in with nine-eight or four-trey. It’s more likely that he has one of the following five hands:
1) He paired the board.
2) He made a straight.
3) He made a flush draw...”
So, is the word ‘draw’ missing from possibility #2, or do the authors really mean to say that nine-eight or four-trey are only one possibility out of five (which contradicts the proceeding sentences?) See, it’s hard to tell. Or at least it forces you to stop and think about what the authors mean, and there is plenty to concentrate on already.

My personal experience with copy editors are that
1) They don’t get paid all that much and
2) The good ones really do catch this stuff.

In summary, yes, I hope the kind folks at 2+2 do improve in this area and yes, they are by far the best in the business already. I ordered HOH 2 yesterday and look forward to reading it, errors and all.

[larrondo]

But to be clear... there is a problem at least every few pages. Page 318 "The Big Blind calls..." The big blind has folded. They mean the small blind.

This is the last one I"ll mention. I promise.

[wyrd]

I come from a video game background, and I'd like to comment on this quote:

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3. Please understand that business conditions are different now than they ever have been before. More books are coming out, and the faster they come out, the more money they will make. I bet Mason never got calls from angry book buyers before about "When is the damn book coming out already?" But now he's getting them.


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While I understand there are fans waiting for books, and no doubt many complaints and angry fans, this is no reason to rush a books release prematurely. The game industry has recently fallen to this low, and at one time 90% of the games released on the PC were dubbed as "release now and patch later" by many players. This was not a good thing. Blizzard Entertainment has always taken a different approach, and always released games "when they are done." They did not fall victim to the complaints and angry fans, because they knew these fans would be even more angry if their games were released prematurely. Because of this, they are still one of the most respected gaming companies, and the quality of their games has been nothing but top notch since their very first game.

My point? Quality over quantity has always proven to be more effective than quantity over quality. If your books remain quality, the more copies they will sell. If you rush books and the quality slips aways, the less copies they will sell. Please keep this in mind. Personally, I'd rather see less books published so long as the quality remains high, rather than several sub-par books that have nothing more to say than what has already been written by other authors.

Thanks for your time

[VoraciousReader]

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My point? Quality over quantity has always proven to be more effective than quantity over quality. If your books remain quality, the more copies they will sell. If you rush books and the quality slips aways, the less copies they will sell. Please keep this in mind. Personally, I'd rather see less books published so long as the quality remains high, rather than several sub-par books that have nothing more to say than what has already been written by other authors.
Thanks for your time

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A. Typographical and grammatical errors notwithstanding, I have never purchased a 2+2 book that I found to be anything other than exceptionally high quality. That is equally true of their new releases, most notably HOH2.

B. I do not wish them to publish FEWER books. (Note my use of the word "fewer", rather than "less". When referring to items that are counted individually, we use "fewer"; i.e. I might have LESS rice, but I have FEWER GRAINS of rice. You see where these things go if we get too nitpicky?) Although it would undoubtedly save me money on poker books, it would probably cost me money at poker.

C. When I was in college, I purchased a textbook for $119.00. It was the 2nd edition. There was an error in it that actually cost me a question on an exam. When has there EVER been a version of Windows that was not soon followed by a patch? Mistakes happen, especially when dealing with highly technical material that a proofreader might not know is wrong; authors often have difficulty catching errors in the text because they are so familiar with the material that they actually read what it is supposed to say. SSHE, errors and all, cost me $19.77 at Amazon.com, and has made me many more dollars than that textbook ever did. I defy you to name a 2+2 book that meets the description of "several sub-par books that have nothing more to say than what has already been written by other authors."

D. I agree absolutely with bringing errors to the attention of the author/publisher. But in a respectful manner, and let's certainly not DISCOURAGE them from publishing!

[maryfield48]

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In other words, I am taking constructive criticism to heart. I will help make future books as error-free as possible, and I appreciate your efforts to identify errors that do slip through.

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Ok. Constructive criticism #1. "Error-free" is like pregnant. It's Is you is, or is you ain't. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Nice post, Ed.

[binions]

Thanks Mason. Updated my copy. One correction to the corrections:

Page 22 "lessor" should be "lesser", not "lesser" should be "lesser"

[HackerJack]

Having a collection of 22 poker books (and not all 2+2), I believe 2+2 is by far the best and most accurate publisher and certainly the best in specific content! I know there are many posters here that have more, so don't bother posting that you have read more than me.

If you haven't already, get HOH I and II. 99+% percent of the content is correct and these are the very best books on the subject of NL Tornaments - even with the errors.

Many of the posts here are picky, althogh it is correct that there are a few problems with theoretical mistakes. This is a minor issue compared to the vast majority of content and advice. There is no doubt that both books are well worth the price.

I am anxiously awaiting HOH III and will pre-order it (even knowing it may have errors) the first day I can.

Having said that, the errata posted by MM is related soley to HOH I. Most of the "HOH Exposed" was about HOH II, but, given MM's decision to post corrections for HOH I, one can assume 2+2 might be changing their policy to publish future corrections.

[pastabatman]

I want to remind everyone that what most of us were asking for (a list of corrections made to each printing) is a exactly what Mason provided. Whether or not there are additional errors is beside the point.

Mason, I commend you for responding to our pleas, and I sincerely hope you don't let certain posts in this thread discourage you from continuing to provide the information for future printings. Most of us really appreciate it, I promise. One suggestion: Please put this information on a dedicated web page. That would be much easier to reference, and (with proper links on your front page) easier for newcomers to find.

Pasta