Negreanu's preflop call of 75s

[amoeba]

I don't even know what smoothcall is arguing here. Is he arguing the call was wrong or is he arguing that Dan N is not a good player?

Or is he arguing that non of the pro players on tv is a good player and its all marketing and smoothcall is the best?

I mean, it seems like you enjoy being forum antagonist.

[Smoothcall]

All of those are possible.

[Vince Lepore]

I've been following this discussion and it seems to have degenerated into a discussion of DN's skills. The question was whether or not this was an easy call. Are you guys saying this was an easy call for a great player? A bad call for a good/poor player? One thing that must also be considered is whether or not a good/poor player would even make this raise.

Vince

[amoeba]

whether a player would steal on the button does not say anything about how good they are.

stealing is a weapon that should be employed just like any other weapon.

Obviously, this hand was an illustration on Dan N's read on Annie Duke. If the reraise came from somebody else, he probably would have laid it down.

For a scenario with such limited choices as call or fold ( i don't think rereraise is an option but what do I know), it all comes down to dan's read of annie.

Its not that Dan N plays 75s so well but rather he had a read on annie right from the start and he was correct in his read.

[amoeba]

I think this whole discussion is kind of pointless.

The reason the hand was in the article is because its not something in the norm.

The article becomes much less interesting if its yet another textbook situation.

It was just there to illustrate his thought process and his read.

Its like an article about somebody laying down KK preflop because he just knew somebody else had AA. and he goes in to detail about why he believed somebody else had AA, etc etc....

The preflop call really can't be debated as it was based on a read. What can be debated is the flop raise.

[felson]

Amoeba: "The preflop call really can't be debated as it was based on a read."

Daniel: "Anytime I can get 2-1 pot odds, implied odds, and position with a suited connector, you can count me in!"

Even though Daniel had a read, sounds like he would play on even without it. Also, Daniel would be happy to take up his hand against AA in this spot ("Normally with a hand like that, I'd be hoping my opponent had two aces").

[amoeba]

hmm I stand corrected then.

Although I wonder how much of that is him attempting humor and how much is for real.

I guess the AA comment means he would rather be a bigger dog and have more implied odds rather than being 2:1 and having less implied odds.

[lastchance]

Yup, exactly. Suited Connectors = Implied odds, so he wants to be up against AA, which would pay him off.

I think this play is highly subjective. You can fold here, you can call, hell, you can even reraise if you think Annie will lay her hand down. I think here, the standard play is to fold, but I am pretty sure that Dan N is not losing a lot of equity by calling.

[Smoothcall]

I don't know how to compare unless you give me resume's of other known great players to compare. You know Daniel plays almost every single event in these major tournies. In 7 years he better have something to show. What's missing from the resume is him going flat broke and into debt in the middle somewhere. And to say its your girlfriends fault is silly. I'm sure it didn't help matters but if your great how could you lose ALL that money. You might hurt your hourly rate or make a bone head play in a tournament here or there but you still should be able to keep building your bankroll not lose hundred's of thousands of dollars. Again not bashing but needs to be taken into account if we're gonna truely judge greatness.

[lastchance]

People get better at Poker. We were all fish once. We all got better, and a lot better. All the greats used to suck too, y'know.