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#31
01-07-2005, 01:52 AM
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Re: Phil Hellmuth: \"No!\"
[ QUOTE ]
Couldn't have said it any better myself. Phil's biggest weakness is his superiority complex. Against Annie Duke in the tournament of champions he layed down some key hands because he believed he was going to catch her eventually. I can't even label Phil Hellmuth as a top ten player today because he hasn't had the success the past few years to be on that list. [/ QUOTE ] Not sure that's the best example. Phil did fold a number of big hands heads up against Annie but he was behind in all of them! And to the other poster, it's pretty far off the topic I know, but for the record he did finish 27th in the 2003 WSOP, well into the money 
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#32
01-07-2005, 02:02 AM
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Re: Phil Hellmuth: \"No!\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Phil plays fewer tournaments than almost all the "big name" pro's. [/ QUOTE ] I'm so glad to hear you've been recording those statistics because I have often wanted to cite them while authoring various arguments. Would you please post your records? I'd be happy to pay you for the time you've put into it; since you're the only person who actually has this information, I know it must have been a lot of work to collect. [/ QUOTE ] Wow! Quite the sarcastic post there. I based my statement on information from two sources: Phil Hellmuth himself, and Daniel Negreanu. Phil Hellmuth has stated both on RGP and in his Cardplayer articles that he is playing fewer and fewer tournaments lately due to his family life & business interests, and quote "You won't see much of me outside the WSOP and WPT events". And on RGP a couple of years ago, Daniel Negreanu posted a "tournament player breakdown" of players in his opinion likely to make 250K a year or more. "Group A TJ Cloutier Chris Ferguson John Juanda Phil Ivey Daniel Negreanu Scotty Nguyen These six, will play the majority of big buyin tournaments, while playing few to no tournaments with buyins of $300 or less. Each one though, will likely play anywhere from 110 to 160 tournaments a year depending. This next group, will likely always be winning tournament players, year in and year out, but their hourly rate will likely be much less than the first group. Group B Vince Burgio David Levi Kathy Liebert Men Nguyen David Pham David Plastik Reason being, is that this group will play in many of the tournaments, with buyins as small as $100. By years end, this group may play upwards of 200 tournaments. Men, has likely played in over 1000 tournaments in the past five years alone! This third group, definetely plays the fewest tournaments of the three for various reasons: Group C Johnny Chan Diego Cordovez Allen Cunningham Phil Hellmuth Toto Leonidas Erik Siedel"
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#33
01-07-2005, 02:11 AM
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Re: Phil Hellmuth: \"No!\"
Oh by the way Paul, I am not suprised to see you chime in here considering your bias towards Hellmuth. Can anybody forget your tournament player ranking where you ranked several players with 1/10th of Hellmuth's accomplishments above him? No bias there right? This list is laughable:
"Top Ten: Daniel Negreanu, Scotty Nguyen, John Juanda, Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson, Layne Flack, Gus Hansen, Can Kim Hua, Meng La, me. Next Group: Erik Seidel, Barry Greenstein, Johnny Chan, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer, Carlos Mortensen, Huck Seed, Alan Goehring, Allen Cunningham, Amir Vahedi, Ram Vaswani, David Chiu, Stan Goldstein, Russ Hamilton, Chip Jett, Chau Giang, Surinder Sunar, Marcel Luske, Tom Jacobs, Minh Nguyen, Thomas Keller, John Hennigan, Bill Gazes, Billy Duarte Next Group: That's as far as I'm going, field broadens quite a bit now. Group Of People I Should Note I Didn't Just Forget About Who Don't Make My Top Two Groups Because I Think They Each Have At Least One Material Weakness: TJ Cloutier, Men Nguyen, Hoyt Corkins, Eskimo Clark, Ted Forrest, Mel Judah, Mike Matusow, Mike Laing, and of course the always popular Phil Hellmuth."
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#34
01-07-2005, 02:21 AM
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Re: Phil Hellmuth: \"No!\"
[ QUOTE ]
I based my statement on information from two sources: Phil Hellmuth himself [/ QUOTE ] Uh-huh. I'm sure the vague claims of a guy widely famed for accurate self-depiction puts you in perfect position to know not only how many events he enters, but how many everyone else enters. [ QUOTE ] "You won't see much of me outside the WSOP and WPT events". [/ QUOTE ] What other events would anyone even be talking about in this context? Are you implying all the other "big-name pros" not only play all those events but lots more where there is some non-negligible sum of money to be won? [ QUOTE ] And on RGP a couple of years ago, Daniel Negreanu posted a "tournament player breakdown" of players [/ QUOTE ] I like daniel and everything but I can't imagine a less relevant list than one daniel threw together years ago. [ QUOTE ] This list is laughable: [/ QUOTE ] If only such laughter as yours was ever backed by action.
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#35
01-07-2005, 02:33 AM
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Re: Phil Hellmuth: \"No!\"
He was behind in every hand that aired. Look up some past Annie posts and you'll see that she did it a lot more times before the hands they aired and I'm sure she didn't always have the best hand.
Phil has a very exploitable weakness. He thinks he's so good he won't take smaller edges.
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#36
01-07-2005, 01:56 PM
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Re: Phil Hellmuth: \"No!\"
[ QUOTE ]
Phil Hellmuth has stated both on RGP and in his Cardplayer articles that he is playing fewer and fewer tournaments lately due to his family life & business interests, and quote "You won't see much of me outside the WSOP and WPT events". [/ QUOTE ] Phil admitting he makes more from his business interests doesn't exactly support the opinion he's amongst the best tourney players in the world.
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#37
01-07-2005, 02:41 PM
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Re: Phil Hellmuth: \"No!\"
[ QUOTE ]
I'm so glad to hear you've been recording those statistics because I have often wanted to cite them while authoring various arguments. Would you please post your records? I'd be happy to pay you for the time you've put into it; since you're the only person who actually has this information, I know it must have been a lot of work to collect. [/ QUOTE ] Paul, not to get in the middle of this debate, but I wanted to ask you (or anyone who can concretely answer) something: why isn't this information available? Certainly it is out there somewhere ... but, you are right, the list doesn't exist. Why isn't their a site or a database or a list for each year where you can click on a player's name and see, I don't know: Paul Phillips <list every major tourney you've played in, the buy-in of the event, the rebuys if applicable, the final place you ended up, and the money you got for that place> And on and on for every pro out there.... With all of the information being on the net -- why hasn't someone done this yet? I can't imagine I'd be the only person interested to see that you, or another pro, played in X events in 2004, paid out Y entry fees, and ended up winning Z in prize dollars. What's the ?-factor that I'm missing? Barron Vangor Toth www.BarronVangorToth.com
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#38
01-07-2005, 03:08 PM
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Re: Phil Hellmuth: \"No!\"
I think Phil is good for poker. His antics are so predictable and absurd that most just laugh it off. I enjoy watching him play not only for the antics but to watch a master work. He is quite possibly the greatest no-limit holdem tournament player that ever lived.
A question for Paul Phillips - Phil writes in his book (yes I read it) that he had to change his style because people were running over him consistantly. I wonder if you see him as a tight player or not? Thanks.
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