Phil Gordon's Little Green Book

[uuDevil]

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...Phil mentioned he makes money on the side betting on rock-paper-scissors (and in fact beat Anthony in a best-of-7 for $100). He must have read that thread in "Other Gambling" or wherever it was a few months back.

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He's been playing for years.

[Vincent Lepore]

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There is more to it than just the above consideration.

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Ok, what?

Vince

[JohnG]

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/proLessons.php?lesson=29

[benkahuna]

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I got it today taking back a second copy of HoH that was hiding in my dining area.

I've read the first 58 pages or so and a few sections in the back.

I think it's excellent. There are some original insights about how to play opponents in particular situations (basically Phil telling how he does it) and overall it's very good.

The simplicity of the design and instruction in the book is striking. I'm quite impressed Phil was able to be so succinct.


There is advice relevant to cash games even though Phil's focus is tournaments (though tournaments are not a focus of the book at all as far as I've read).

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Does Phil's book cover anything that wasn't covered in the Harrington on Hold'em series? Can you possibly give a list of topics he discusses that you thought were very insightful and why? I already purchased a copy of Phil's first book, Poker: The Real Deal, a while back and was very dissapointed, thus my hesitation to go out and purchase this book before reading some more reviews. Thank you benkahuna. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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OK, finished the book a few days ago.

I wouldn't say Phil covered any concepts not seen in the HoH series. However, I think he covered a few concepts with greater depth. His discussion about bet sizing post flop was very good IMO. Some posters talk about it being exclusively related to his own hand's current value/drawing potential. Not so. It also incorporates his take on the other person's hand. His discussion on playing the blinds was also very useful and more extensive than HoH. Someone mentioned his obvious reference to Prahlad (I also felt kind of cool for getting that one--not cool, dorky poker obsession) and it was interesting, but unlikely to be useful for most people. There are more examples of this sort, but I'm going to say it's not only tedious to really analyze the two books, it's more than I'm willing to do to do in response to a post.

I'm not trying to sell you the book. However, I did find the book to be very solid in most respects and much better than The Real Deal (which I liked, but found a bit fluffy and more useful as a general presentation about poker). I believe it lives up to its claims on the jacket of the book. Phil presents NL in a very straightforward, yet accurate manner here. There's nothing revolutionary in his advice, but his advice is easy to follow, has internal consistency, and just makes a lot of sense.

It sounds like you're looking for something to give you groundbreaking new material and theory to help you in a cash NL game. I don't think you'll find that in this book. However, I do think you'll find new presentation about many concepts and greater depth in discussion about familiar concepts that will, if you're a discerning, critical reader improve your NL cash game despite the book starting out more generally about NL and then focusing more specifically on tournament NL holdem. If you've read a lot of poker theory and HoH (and thought about the theory, played and lot and understood what was in the books well--including TOP), then you might not need this book. But, I think there are a few topics that are not covered elsewhere that are gems or easter eggs that make book worth getting.

I should warn you though, I tend to find value in most things and am not quickly dismissive of books on poker that can give me something original.

If you're still in doubt how to deal with the publication of this work after reading my post, I strongly recommend just checking out the book in a book store if possible. If you can't and can afford the book, it's probably worth getting. If it's tough to afford the book based on your poker play, you'll probably get enough from the book that it will pay for itself.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

I've read about 40 percent of this book and here's my preliminary opinion. It's reasonbly good, but not great, and is targeted towards a beginner or intermediate player.

It does have one major problem. It is horribly written. It seems like every fifth or sixth word is "I," and probably 20 percent of the words could be eliminated. I find it amazing that these major publishers don't do basic editing, and Phil Gordon, who I believe is a good guy, should be very upset about this.

So my preliminary rating would be a 6. If it was written better, because the information is there, it would get at least a 7 and perhaps an 8.

Of course, my opinion might change as I read more.

best wishes,

Mason

[AEKDBet]

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It does have one major problem. It is horribly written.

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I couldn't disagree more. Are there a ton of personal pronouns? Yes, but I didn't notice until you said something. The book reads like dialog from Phil - all grammar aside, the way it was written makes it flow quite smoothly.

The point here, and the point of the book as he states in the intro is..
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In short, the following pages are, to the best of my ability, how I play No Limit Texas Hold'em. I'm not the best player in the world. But I'm a winning player, and I win playing exactly the style that is described here.

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Hard to do without all the "I's", but are they that bothersome anyway?

[eboller]

I'd have to disagree too. I didn't notice the overuse of "I". I don't recall if Harvey Penick's Little Red Book writing style was like that, but it's obvious that Phil's intention was to impart lessons from himself. The use of "I" just makes it more personal and fitting with the style of the book. Nothing wrong with that imo. Personally, I think it's a great book that fills in a few things that I think were missing from the awesome Harrington books or at least not covered in depth.

Eric

[pipes]

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Hi Everyone:

I've read about 40 percent of this book and here's my preliminary opinion. It's reasonbly good, but not great, and is targeted towards a beginner or intermediate player.

It does have one major problem. It is horribly written. It seems like every fifth or sixth word is "I," and probably 20 percent of the words could be eliminated. I find it amazing that these major publishers don't do basic editing, and Phil Gordon, who I believe is a good guy, should be very upset about this.

So my preliminary rating would be a 6. If it was written better, because the information is there, it would get at least a 7 and perhaps an 8.

Of course, my opinion might change as I read more.

best wishes,

Mason

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He did not write the book to get an A from his English teacher. From all of the money this book will make us, we can buy all the books from Hemingway that we want.

[maurile]

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I've read about 40 percent of this book and here's my preliminary opinion. It's reasonbly good, but not great, and is targeted towards a beginner or intermediate player.

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Hi Mason,

Ignoring any concerns about the writing style, how do you think Gordon's book compares (content-wise) to the Ciaffone/Ruben book or to Doyle's NLHE chapter in SyperSystem? I consider those books to be the best NLHE materials outside of HOHI and HOHII, so I'd be interested in your opinion about how Gordon's book stacks up to them.

(No fair comparing it to any bits of the Sklansky/Miller manuscript you've seen since their book isn't available yet.)

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi maurile:

It's been so long since I read the Ciaffone/Ruben book that it would be unfair for me to make a comparison even though I gave that book a very high rating. It's also my opinion that you cannot win in a hold 'em no limit cash game with deep stacks using the no limit chapter in either Super System since Doyle has you putting all your chips in far too often, and this is the game these chapters were targeted for. Gordon't book is mainly targeted for no limit tournaments.

Best wishes,
Mason