what are weak tight players thinking about?

[LinusKS]

I might be able to answer that, since I've been accused of being weak-tight.

First, my stats: My VPIP is 13.55, a little over the 10% you cited. On the other hand, my BB/100 is 2.72, so maybe I've been on a good run. Or perhaps my BB/100 would be even higher if I played KT off from UTG.

But I can tell you what I'm thinking about is Do I have the best hand? Do I have the odds to go on? Can I make my opponent fold?

If the answer is no, I don't play.

I don't think having a high VPIP in and of itself makes you good. I think being good is about making the right mathematical choices, at every stage of the game.

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as poker players, we generally assume that what we are doing is correct and that what other people are doing is incorrect. as a player who goes by the guidelines instructed by these forums, i gauge my level of skill in comparison to other players when i see them doing things that the players here advise against. when i see a weak tight player, i may think that he might be a small winner, but i know that hes too tight and i will profit from having him in the game. when i see someone too loose i obviously think they are a fish.

what are weak-tight players thinking? are the guys who pack 10VPIPs saying to themselves that all the guys with 19VPIPs are just way too loose? or, is it that they are simply more rational than most poker players and know that they are not good enough to profit off playing with a 19VPIP, so they play within their limits? do they know that the 19VPIPs are better and are simply playing this tight because they think that they dont have the skills in order to profit from playing a game as loose as 19VPIPs do?

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[TStoneMBD]

yah your VPIP is too low. i dont know what limit youre playing at, but its too low. either way, you are pulling in a decent BB/100 so at least youre winning. however, there is definitely room for improvement, that i can assure you. that doesnt mean that you should just go playing more hands because youve been labled weaktight, you should play what you can make profitable. however, i definitely consider 13.5VPIP weak tight, no matter what BB/100 you pull in. at 3/6 my VPIP is 19.5 with 15PFR and im averaging a little over 4BB/100 atm.

[bdk3clash]

Guys: Quoting your "BB/100" like it's some sort of measurable aspect of your poker-playing style is silly. It's just your results (over an unknown sample size, BTW), and it isn't that interesting or relevant to what's being discussed here.

[TStoneMBD]

its only over 15k hands, so it could clearly just be variance and that im actually a losing player. im not trying to brag, i dont find it impressive at all that im beating 3/6. i posted the stats because i was trying to argue that maybe having that fold % on the river really isnt poor play. if i was sustaining a 4BB/100 hand as my true win rate, would you argue that anybody with a 43% folds the river rate must be making a mistake?

[TStoneMBD]

ignore my last post, i thought i was in a different thread. :X

[JoshuaD]

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Or perhaps my BB/100 would be even higher if I played KT off from UTG.

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I think everyone's VP$IP would be higher if they started playing KTo UTG. I don't think anyone serious here is doing that often. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (KTs on the other hand..)

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I don't think having a high VPIP in and of itself makes you good. I think being good is about making the right mathematical choices, at every stage of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I just think you could loosen up a bit and make a bit more money. As an extra benefit, it's a ton more fun.

[rob0506]

I am new to poker tracker (love it!!!) so correct me if I am wrong. It seems that you can't classify a player as weak-tight just from the VPIP. Loose or tight, sure. But weak? My understanding of VPIP is that it's just the percentage of hands that you put money in the pot voluntarily. It doesn't specify f you limped and called or raised and bet.

[Triumph36]

This board is great for learning but nothing beats experience. Maybe at limit where there's a very limited amount of things an opponent can do, it's possible to learn a lot without playing much, but at no limit, learning how to win means examining players' betting patterns and how much they bet.

I don't think that new players are told to play 'weak-tight'. To me, weak-tightness happens post-flop, when players become convinced they are dominated/beat and lose value bets because of it. I think most new players don't think that way because they haven't seen things like set over set or flush over flush. It's the ancient rocks at casinos who play weak-tight, who don't play AK because 'an ace or king never hits', or don't play KQ because they 'always' lose to AK. Weak tightness usually consists of pessimistic superstitions that cause a player to be afraid of losing his or her money.

[AncientPC]

I think it has a big deal to do with a player's confidence where TP-P players are more risk averse and more worried about not losing money.

The fish and maniacs will pay off a tight-weak player, but a thinking player will push the tight-weak player off a lot of pots, play hands with higher implied odds (like small PPs or suited connectors), or avoid him completely.

[pzhon]

A weak-tight player with TT, heads up, puts his opponent on a superposition of AKs, KQs, and QJs, of all different suits. Any observed overcard will resolve the hand, and TT will have 2 outs. Failing that, two to a flush on the board will give the opponent two overcards and a flush draw, a favorite over TT with two cards to come.

More seriously, many players do not seem to value all money equally. Some players overvalue money gained from bluffing. Some undervalue money saved by folding. Weak-tight players might undervalue the money they get from value betting and raising, and overvalue the costs of calling down.