Navy Seals vs Army Rangers vs other special forces vs UFC

[BCPVP]

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WHen Royce suffered his MMA losses he was already in his late 30s and Sakuraba was at his peak.

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Sakuraba is only 2 years younger than Royce is and the two have fought. Royce gave up after 90 minutes of whooping (no time limits for that fight).

[KDawgCometh]

you are dead on with this. My brother just got discharged from teh army and was telling me how for shits and giggles one of the Spec Ops that he knew at his base decided to do a pure submissions fight against a local MMA fighter. THe Spec Ops guy did fairly well, but in the end he lost in about 15 minutes. Now if punches and kicks were allowed in that fight, I am sure that the Spec Op wouldn't have lasted more then 5 minutes against the MMA guy. The Spec Ops guy was one of the better fighters at the base and actually had gotten feelers from King Of the Cage to fight for them when he got some more training after he got out

[Colonel Kataffy]

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I've always had a huge respect for Navy Seals. I envy how fearless they must be. I feel like this might come down to which member of each group is most capable psychologically of killing another person. And so, I think the Navy Seal might have the edge here. Obvious but possibly important statement: it's one thing to potentially break someone's arm or knock him unconscious (this definitely requires some emotional detatchment), but killing seemingly is on an entirely different level.

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Even if the Special Ops guy is more willing to kill, he wouldn't be able to after the UFC merely beats him to a bloody pulp.

[[censored]]

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I've always had a huge respect for Navy Seals. I envy how fearless they must be. I feel like this might come down to which member of each group is most capable psychologically of killing another person. And so, I think the Navy Seal might have the edge here. Obvious but possibly important statement: it's one thing to potentially break someone's arm or knock him unconscious (this definitely requires some emotional detatchment), but killing seemingly is on an entirely different level.

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I think you don't really grasp MMA training in its entirity. Their training doesn't start and end with winning a UFC fight. They are trained in all the aspects of their martial arts training, much of it like chokes and throat strikes is done without regard to if the opponent lives of dies. Also if you give them the advantage when it comes to breaking and arm or putting someone out then they obviously would have the advantage when it comes to killing. Once the arm is broken or the opponent is unconscious he would be at the complete mercy of a UFC fighter and would not be able to defend himself either effectively or at all.

[Colonel Kataffy]

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Kdawg,

Royce is a good point by you. But to say that he is representative of the average UFC fighter is more than generous, he is like the Michael Jordan of UFC, no one else has ever come close.

On a sidenote, has anyone else seen the video of him fighting a Kung Fu master where his brother is narrating? Pretty awesome stuff.

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No, Royce is not the Micheal Jordan of MMA. He was just ahead of the learning curve for his day.

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this is false. WHen Royce suffered his MMA losses he was already in his late 30s and Sakuraba was at his peak. Rickson was actually the best one, but Royce wasn't far behind RIckson. He knows tons of stuff that can never be used in a MMA ring

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No. I'm not sure if your mistake is overestimating Royce or underestimating Jordan. But, proof of your silliness exists in your reply, unless of course you can provide evidence of Jordan having an older brother that was a better basketball player. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Go_Blue88]

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I've always had a huge respect for Navy Seals. I envy how fearless they must be. I feel like this might come down to which member of each group is most capable psychologically of killing another person. And so, I think the Navy Seal might have the edge here. Obvious but possibly important statement: it's one thing to potentially break someone's arm or knock him unconscious (this definitely requires some emotional detatchment), but killing seemingly is on an entirely different level.

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I think you don't really grasp MMA training in its entirity. Their training doesn't start and end with winning a UFC fight. They are trained in all the aspects of their martial arts training, much of it like chokes and throat strikes is done without regard to if the opponent lives of dies. Also if you give them the advantage when it comes to breaking and arm or putting someone out then they obviously would have the advantage when it comes to killing. Once the arm is broken or the opponent is unconscious he would be at the complete mercy of a UFC fighter and would not be able to defend himself either effectively or at all.

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Admittedly, I don't know much about their training (other than what I see on that cool reality show). And now that I think about it, I'm definitely wrong because the UFC fighters are trained so well to react when placed in vulnerable positions (ie-on their back). Also, once in the fight, I'm sure mentally they're not concerned at all about the others well-being (obviously), and so it's not that big of a step (at that current moment) from knocking him unconscious to dealing a killing blow. So yeah, I'm wrong, and I think the UFC fighter will be the most prepared fighter of the three, in any hand-to-hand combat scenario.

[[censored]]

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Kdawg,

Royce is a good point by you. But to say that he is representative of the average UFC fighter is more than generous, he is like the Michael Jordan of UFC, no one else has ever come close.

On a sidenote, has anyone else seen the video of him fighting a Kung Fu master where his brother is narrating? Pretty awesome stuff.

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No, Royce is not the Micheal Jordan of MMA. He was just ahead of the learning curve for his day.

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this is false. WHen Royce suffered his MMA losses he was already in his late 30s and Sakuraba was at his peak. Rickson was actually the best one, but Royce wasn't far behind RIckson. He knows tons of stuff that can never be used in a MMA ring

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No. I'm not sure if your mistake is overestimating Royce or underestimating Jordan. But, proof of your silliness exists in your reply, unless of course you can provide evidence of Jordan having an older brother that was a better basketball player. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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It's hard to judge Royce completely because he started at a time where boxers would enter the octagon with one boxing glove on! Can you imagine that. Today there aren't even any pure boxers in the sport.

Also it took a number of years to work through all the dojo phonies who "invented" their own martial arts style.

Fighting is weird because you can take an average male of good health, train him for 2 hours and he could take out most people looking like a badass. Yet he would get destroyed by a truly trained fighter.

That's why its weird to even compare military guys to (true) UFC fighters. The special forces guy will be able to handle himself against you average bar badass and look unstoppable doing so simply because he wont panic and will strike with purpose and precision. Yet most will be completely ineffective against professional fighters.

[Colonel Kataffy]

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It's hard to judge Royce completely because he started at a time where boxers would enter the octagon with one boxing glove on! Can you imagine that. Today there aren't even any pure boxers in the sport.


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Yeah, this is true. Back then, they tried to pit it as style vs. style. The rules were tailored specifically for his stlye. His brother designed the thing. Now the styles are pretty meaningless. The rules are less favorable to Royce, if he were to fight in UFC. Everyone is a "mixed" martial artist. Royce himself wasn't a very rounded fighter, its just that none of the other styles had any idea what to do when encountered with him.

[ScottyP431]

Colonel,

I don't think you are rude, but i don't think you are very smart/informed either. Your analogy doesn't apply because seals aren't taught swimming techniques that are illegal in the 100M freestyle at the olympics.

BCVP,
I'm basing my claims on knowing seals and research I've done on the topic. Plus, as I mentioned previously there is a UFC fighter (hess) who does advertisements for SCARS ( a seals knock off combat training course) who speaks on this issue. You seem to be missing my point. UFC fighters train for a specific set of circumstances. If you can show me what UFC fighters train to kill specifically, or have proven an ability to use pitfighting to overcome unrestrained retaliation from an opponent I would appreciate it. The point that "UFC techniques can kill" is non responsive. Yes if you choke me I die. Try choking someone while also protecting your groin/eyes/kidneys, or for that matter, getting the choke hold on someone trained to kill quickly. My basic point that UFC rules FAVOR a particular style by limiting out the most effective responses to it has not been answered. Can UFC grappling/submission moves kill? Yes. Are they the most effective means of killing someone in unarmed combat? Not even close.

The main arg seems to repeatedly be "training time". I agree, UFC fighters train more often for unarmed fighting. But training has many components. Much of their training is basic fitness work, which seals do. They also spend a great deal of time learning how to do moves and counter a certain set of moves (grappling/submission) that seals probably ignore to a large extent. How much time do they spend training to fend of lethal attacks? Not much (i'm guessing here, please prove me wrong)

Censored,
I'm assuming that since you said you were in the army and used the term special forces you are referring to Rangers, which I don't know a lot about, other than that their claimed specialties which are raids/building assault/airfield seizure. I'm guessing their skill set is more specialized than seals.

In terms of training being primarily weapons focused, this is true, but my point is that there is a sufficient amount of combat training. I won't bore you with quotes since no one will probably read them anyway, but if you would like to here are a few links relating to seal combat training and SAFTA/SCARS their unarmed combat training schools.

http://www.specialoperations.com/Navy/SEALs/Platoon.htm

http://www.navyseals.com/community/n...ining_buds.cfm

As censored also points out, most seals do not stop at official training either.

This point
"To get an idea of the advantage the UFC fighter would have you could ask the question who would win a fire fight and unit vs. unit armed conflict. A special forces unit or a group of armed UFC fighters. Thats close to the amount of difference we are talking about."
However goes the other way. Seals would destroy them, 2 reasons
1. Teamwork- crucial
2. Endurance- most UFC guys are slow after 1 or 2 rounds

[BCPVP]

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And now that I think about it, I'm definitely wrong because the UFC fighters are trained so well to react when placed in vulnerable positions (ie-on their back).

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This is one of the reasons a well-trained UFC fighter will win. For those arguing that eye gouges and throat strikes will give the special forces guy any edge must not watch much UFC. For many UFC fighters (especially nowadays) the mount is the one of the ultimate positions. The guy on the bottom won't be able to reach the other guy's face but the guy on top will. And unless the special forces guy has trained specificaly on how to get a mounted guy off of him (doubtful) he's doomed.

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Also, once in the fight, I'm sure mentally they're not concerned at all about the others well-being (obviously)

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Not really. I think it's kinda like football. Even with all the testosterone and adrenaline pumping, guys still don't like to see other guys get badly hurt. At the end of the fight, you almost always see both fighters shake hands and/or hug and congratulate each other.

But if this is a death match, where not killing the other guy means your own death, I'm sure they could put that aside.