Was Scalf Referring to Blacks in These Posts?

[andyfox]

I made the association because it's a classic racist sterotype. If somebody said "members of a certain cultural group that have big noses and usually try to make as much money as possible and control the world's banks and money supply," I would know they were referring to Jews not because I'm prejudiced against Jews but because these are prototypical bigoted attitudes towards Jews. Here's a rewritten version of scalf's post:

Shlomo the teller at the bank

this young man did an excellent job; very quick, yet accurate..even found a ten dollar bill I did no see.

funny; usually i actively seek other tellers, since members of his culture tend to be cheap money-hoarders and steal my money since they own most of the banks.

my lucky day..


Would it make me prejudiced because I knew that the poster was referring to Jews?

"Andy, have you ever changed the wording or felt uncomfortable saying something around an individual just because he/she was black? Do you think you would have felt that discomfort if you had no notions of racial stereotypes?"

No. And I don't actively seek to avoid black check-out people because I don't think they do things slowly or without regard to accuracy or completeness.

[ptmusic]

Of course that's the population he meant. But at the risk of getting flamed for being too p.c., may I say that referring to African Americans as "blacks" could be perceived as prejudiced.

-ptmusic

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
But at the risk of getting flamed for being too p.c., may I say that referring to African Americans as "blacks" could be perceived as prejudiced.


[/ QUOTE ]

It could be so perceived by some, but that would be an erroneous perception.

"African-American" is a potentially erroneous term, as a considerable number of blacks are from, say, the Caribbean islands rather than Africa.

Also, "Asian" is less accurate than "Oriental", as many Asians are actually Caucasian, being from parts of Russia rather than from the Orient. Hence "Asian" may lead to confusion in meaning; it is overbroad.

In the endless quest to devise ever more non-offensive terms, less accurate terms have been devised. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I'll even suggest that calling someone something incorrect may be inherently more insulting than using a term which the PC police have currently deemed "archaic" or "offensive" in their latest fad. Remember, "black" used to be the current PC term.

That said, I now generally use "Asian" although I think it's rather silly. However, I use "black" rather than "African-American". Maybe the guy is a "Haitian-American", no?

A decade from now, will we soon need to refer to people as "European-Americans"? Heh.

May the PC-police take a flying leap into an ice-cold lake, so as to wake up their brain cells, the next time they set out to devise even more "politically correct" terms.

[andyfox]

Is it the "pc police" who devised these terms? I thought "black" and "African-American" came into vogue because of usage by the group themselves, that this is the term themselves preferred. Is this correct?

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought "black" and "African-American" came into vogue because of usage by the group themselves, that this is the term themselves preferred. Is this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point/question, Andy, and you're probably right.

Anyway, I hate inaccuracy, and "Asian" instead of "Oriental" to differentiate races is poor terminolgy IMO because a Caucasian from Siberia is Asian too. "African-American" is also inaccurate and a poorer choice of terminology.

ACTUALLY, I think the much earlier terms of Caucasian, Negroid and Oriental are by far the most accurate if the goal of usage is to reference members of a particular race (setting aside the separate issue/question regarding validity of race as a concept in itself). I DON'T see why those terms should inherently have more objectionable connotations than any other differentiating designations of race. Of course it is probably too much to expect that language will evolve in a logical manner, so we can probably forget about the reinstatement of those terms in popular usage.

[andyfox]

I think the terms "Orient" and "Oriental" were value-laden in the West, in a demeaning or derogatory way. Things like "the inscrutable Oriental mind," or "life is cheap in the Orient."

http://www.english.emory.edu/Bahri/Orientalism.html.

Euphemisms can be politically or PC motivated ("People's Republic of China" for Communist dictatorship) or motivated by other concerns (decency or politeness). I don't think Oriental is necessarily any more accurate than Asian because what, exactly, are the geographic confines of the "Orient"?

[andyfox]

http://www.africultures.com/anglais/...41cremieux.htm

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it the "pc police" who devised these terms? I thought "black" and "African-American" came into vogue because of usage by the group themselves, that this is the term themselves preferred. Is this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anybody here actually know any black people?
From these posts it seems that eveyone here lives in Whitelandia, Suburbia and who's only interaction with blacks is when they accidentally flip to UPN.
Over the course of my life, living and going to school in NYC, I have had many co-workers, friends, and aquantances of every possible race and nationality.
90% of black people that I have known do not use the term "African American" in place of "black" and 100% of them are not offended by being refered to as "black".
As a side note, a majority of black people that I have been friends also will laugh at a black joke. (Just as I will laugh at an Italian joke, a fat joke, or for that matter, a poker player joke. Most people are not as sensitive as the PC police would like everyone to think.

"If you must refer to my race, call me black, not “African American.” It is offensive to me. There is no such color, race, or nationality. I am an American of African descent."
-La Shawn Barber (Noted Black Journalist)

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But at the risk of getting flamed for being too p.c., may I say that referring to African Americans as "blacks" could be perceived as prejudiced.


[/ QUOTE ]

It could be so perceived by some, but that would be an erroneous perception.

"African-American" is a potentially erroneous term, as a considerable number of blacks are from, say, the Caribbean islands rather than Africa.

Also, "Asian" is less accurate than "Oriental", as many Asians are actually Caucasian, being from parts of Russia rather than from the Orient. Hence "Asian" may lead to confusion in meaning; it is overbroad.

In the endless quest to devise ever more non-offensive terms, less accurate terms have been devised. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I'll even suggest that calling someone something incorrect may be inherently more insulting than using a term which the PC police have currently deemed "archaic" or "offensive" in their latest fad. Remember, "black" used to be the current PC term.

That said, I now generally use "Asian" although I think it's rather silly. However, I use "black" rather than "African-American". Maybe the guy is a "Haitian-American", no?

A decade from now, will we soon need to refer to people as "European-Americans"? Heh.

May the PC-police take a flying leap into an ice-cold lake, so as to wake up their brain cells, the next time they set out to devise even more "politically correct" terms.

[/ QUOTE ]

Accuracy is not really relevant. Are white people accurately called "white"? These names aren't devised by the PC police; they are devised by haters ("nigger"), or they are devised by the people themselves, and they deserve to be called what they want to be called.

Yes, it can be a bit silly at times, especially when a group of people keep changing their name (which isn't that often btw, "African American" has been around for over a decade). But it isn't silly to them. And it doesn't take much effort to change the way one refers to another. And that slight effort can make a world of difference in relationships.

-ptmusic

[MMMMMM]

I see your point but I think accurate use of language should not be considered offensive in the slightest. For instance "Negro" should not be considered offensive although "nigger" most certainly is offensive.

Also, "African American" might be considered to slight American Caribbean Islanders. Guess that wasn't thought of in the rush to devise a new PC term. Heh.