Kick Ass No-Limit Holdem

[Daliman]

Sure, i'd be interested. I already own everything 2+2 has out anyways, so it's not like I'm taking $$$$ from S, M, Or Z

[Kaizen ZN Nguyen]

As the author of this book, naturally I've been following the discussion of it in this forum. I was very shocked to read about the similarity which Graham pointed out between a passage in my book and a posting by Ray Zee that he says took place three years ago. When I compared the two passages, I could certainly see the similarity myself. I have no recollection of ever reading Ray Zee's posting. However, it is possible that I may have read it years ago. And that a subconscious memory of it may have influenced my choice of words.

My book is based entirely on my own experience, observations, and understanding of the game of poker. However, after discovering the similarity between my description of tactical underbetting strategy and Zee's, I removed my book from Download Press in order to revise it so as to give Ray Zee credit for describing this strategy first.

Again, I want to firmly state that there was no conscious or deliberate copying involved.

I want to thank Graham for calling attention to the similarity of these passages.

I agree with those who feel that deliberate copying is wrong, and am grateful that this forum has such strong defenders of intellectual property rights. Just one thing, guys - I'm one of you!

[Graham]

You might want to hold your press!

Just so as I haven't stirred up too much confusion. Ray Zee isn't really the one to quote as the originator of underbetting (...to tell the truth, two thirds of the NL players on Party Poker have come up with their strange version of it - all on their own [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] ). It was just the wording in KANLHE was far too similar to Ray's old post to seem like coincidence.

For completeness, here's the thread, Ray Zee's underbetting at no-limit, started by Tommy Angelo. Both Ray and Carl McElvey discuss others using the strategy previously. It's more like one of those uncreditable credits.

Man, I must have been at these forums too long (or for too long each day as well). I can remember threads from 3 years ago and have hundreds of Word files of collated best threads!! I remember Tommy Angelo starting here and posting prolifically...saddo me.. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]! Just think what kind of state the Zee's and Louie Landales of the world are in by now... heh!!..

G

[racingspider]

So how about throwing together a compilation of the goodies you've collected? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Graham]

How much ya willing ta pay [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]


The stuff's all there still! The archives here; anyone can trawl through it. What I used to do - before the forums got way too big - was regularly go through the thread listings (once threads were "dead", ie no more postings in it) and read through the ones that interested me. If I thought a thread had good stuff worth keeping for further review, I'd copy the whole thing into Word, tidy it up and chop out the irrelevant non-poker type posts that we all love to put up. Correcting and adjusting the grammar of some posts would take a while (if you want it all nice and correct), as would keeping the "thread" of the thread, if you see what I mean (ie transferring the arrangement and order of posts from threaded to linear).

It'd easily be a full time job now to go through all the archives here and collate, say, all the best Stud/8 threads like that, and etc etc for the other poker games. Though you would have absolutely fantastic resources for your game!! Like I said; it's still all there for everyone. I still refer to teh stuff I have regularly and have learnt a lot from repeated reading. This thread has sparked me to start doig that again, now I'm leaving the job I have and will actually have some time....hmmmmn, heh...wonder if Mason wants to employ someone to do the best of 2+2...? heh. 20K/mo ok, Mason [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]?

btw, that thread had one of may favourite Tommyisms: "At big bet poker especially, game selection is only everything."

[ZeeJustin]

A lot of people that PM'ed didn't give me their email address; anyone that did should have received an email from me by now.

[uuDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
wonder if Mason wants to employ someone to do the best of 2+2...? heh. 20K/mo ok, Mason ?


[/ QUOTE ]

Graham,

You're not the only one thinking along these lines.... Check out this post:

FAQ Ideas

If you can't get Mason to pay, maybe you should get together w/ bisonbison. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Zeno]

Graham,

This is nothing new or unique. Many people have come up with some variation of this strategy on their own. It is a logical outcome of thinking about the game. It is very common knowledge and many people know the general outline. It is effective in not only NL but also PL and can also be used in short-handed games that can become especially vicious and aggressive. In fact many older road gamblers (primarily Texans) have probably used variations of this tactic for years. Many of these players are 'unknown' but still around and making a living at poker. I have played against some of these guys. They are wily, tricky bastards and you have to watch them like a hawk, least they steal your stack of chips or bills. Beyond the above, I have nothing more to add. So don’t ask. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

-Zeno

PS. Underbetting and other 'advanced' topics are a frequently discussed in the Pot and No-limit forum, which of late has exploded. 2-3 years ago,as you probably know, it was a sort of wasteland. Even just six-months ago it was easy to keep up with. Not anymore.

[ZeeJustin]

I finally got around to reading this and found it to be mediocre.

[Nottom]

I was wrong. ignore me [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]