worst hand ever

[Michael Davis]

"id cold call 2 on the button after a light raise and a call so i figure i can call 2 more here since i have worse position but better pot odds (granted not much better since i will sometimes have to call 4 bets total, while on the button i will less often have to call 3 total)"

Maybe you're right that position and pot odds cancel out, but I doubt it here, especially since you're right, that you will be facing a cap more often.

Anyways, I really hesitate to post this, because I can't imagine you overlooked such a crucial piece of information, but the fact that a threebet is much stronger than an openraise makes this a pretty clear preflop fold, IMO. Even guys with 22 PFR aren't getting out of hand with threebetting, es pecially when we're not even dealing with a button, small blind situation.

-Michael

[TStoneMBD]

i really dont like the preflop call but i agree that its reasonable to call 2 after a light raiser and a coldcaller when in position. that is a much different situation however because you are not liable to facing a cap. by calling 2 in the BB youre basically asking a laggy opponent to cap it up for you so that he can split your value with the other player.

i cant make sense out of a bet/fold on this river. checkcalling is better than bet fold. id also call the raise because im not as trusting as you are. saving bets is in your genes.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]

i cant make sense out of a bet/fold on this river. checkcalling is better than bet fold. id also call the raise because im not as trusting as you are. saving bets is in your genes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check calling seems like you are often missing quite a few bets. Your hand screams flush draw, so your best hand could easily be checked behind.

As for the bet/fold line... CO's hand also seems like a flush draw, and a better one at that. Also, he will know that you are on the flush draw, as that is really the only thing you could be on. If he is a pretty smart player, I think he knows that you might fold to a raise, as you would be thinking that your flush draw is no good. He could do this with a strong hand that he thinks he is ahead of the other player, but behind you. I dunno how thinking most players get, so I think against a regular guy, a fold isn't losing all that much money, if any.

[Danenania]

I would fold PF for reasons that have been stated but I like your postflop play.

[livinitup0]

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i call the river raise even if i 'knew' i was beat. pot is grande and we have a very good hand. for peace of mind, i'd have to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly...why put so much money in the pot just to make a bad bet/fold at the end. If you're sure, then at most check/call... its the same 1 bet. I just think this is one of those wasted "expert folds" that yes, make us feel like experts most of the time, yet retarded when they show overplayed trips even once in 10 times.

2 or 3 of these in a night and I'd feel like pulling my hair out.

[sthief09]

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i cant make sense out of a bet/fold on this river. checkcalling is better than bet fold. id also call the raise because im not as trusting as you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont think it goes check bet raise to me that often. that is the only real reason to check. by bet-folding, i am folding the best hand almost never so im not giving up much. but more often than that he capped the flop with a pair and checked the turn to avoid being checkraised. i see players with middle pair, or in this case maybe K9s (not diamonds) or QQ, and i might get some value from betting


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saving bets is in your genes

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[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[jason_t]

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J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] happens to be my favorite hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

omg we have so much in common. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold PF for reasons that have been stated but I like your postflop play.

[/ QUOTE ]

if:
1. CO raised, button 3-bet (same players)
2. 50/20 raised in MP, 60/25 3-bet in the CO

would the call be ok?

[wheelz]

i don't think you can call checking behind on the turn with a set overplaying it.

[Danenania]

Hmm, honestly I'm not sure. I think they are better situations because there is less danger of facing an overpair but also somewhat worse because it will be capped more often behind you. I like the second scenario better because even though the PFR of the donks isn't much higher they have much worse hands on average than the tags since they will randomly be raising junk when bored. Also your implied odds will be much better since they're so likely to spew postflop.

So I think my SOP would be to fold in 1.) and call in 2.) but I could be convinced to do otherwise if someone makes a good case.