A Lot of Fun Until Your Friends Find Out...

[halis123456789]

P.S.
Maniac Hands are fun! But very expensive.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
P.S.
Maniac Hands are fun! But very expensive.

[/ QUOTE ]
What are you talking about?

[oreogod]

Well I like OPs hand from the turn to river. Preflop and flop are pretty bad.

Villian played his hand really well all the way through IMO (didnt see if he raised the river or not which would be no good).

I also put villian on 55-99ish (actually I was thinking 77-99)

[W. Deranged]

In my opinion, villain played his hand perfectly. I got very lucky.

Pre-flop is certainly bad. I'm still looking to know why I should fold the flop automatically getting 12 to 1. Does anyone simply call the flop here and hope for the best?

Interesting.

This hand puts me so far out of my comfort zone...

My book smarts (or maybe lack of smarts) made me draw very different conlcusions so a few questions. It looks like I need a lot more experience.

Shouldn't I think the dealer's range of hands preflop would have been AQs, AJs, ATs, KQs, KJs, TT, JJ given he's a strong player and cold called from early position? I don't understand 88 as I'm thinking he'd need implied odds of about 9-1 with this hand (I know he actually would have got it here, but on average?)

If UTG is straight forward it seems like he must have AA-TT, AK - AJ with KQs also being possible.

And the other two cold callers being loose could have an awfully wide range of hands.

So I think most likely I'm dominated. I'm thinking continuing after the flop with two overcards is something to be done only under ideal conditions. And semibluff raising is not something I want to try against such a large field especially when I'm drawing to a relatively weak hand.

So my question is: What the hecks wrong with my thinking? and/or, How do I grow out of my predestrian thinking?

And I'm trying to come up with the non moped version of the quote, I've come up with a few...

[hellite]

You should be uncomfortable. This is a terrible play as stated numerous times in this post. Hero's horrendous preflop and postflop play created a situation in which he might have had odds to call a bet on the turn. There seems to be a disagreement about how many outs he had on the turn given villain's holdings. Apparently , according to the experts here, a fourth trey gives hero another out. According to hero and others, villains possible holdings are 44-99. Of course,I am retarded.

[shant]

Making yourself a martyr of an internet poker forum is stupid. Relax.

[Margeaux]

[ QUOTE ]

If UTG is straight forward it seems like he must have AA-TT, AK - AJ with KQs also being possible.

And the other two cold callers being loose could have an awfully wide range of hands.

So I think most likely I'm dominated...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is absolutely the key point. A reasonable range of hands for UTG is AA-TT, AK-AJ, KQs. Your raise is folding NONE of those hands, with a flop so innocuous as this, except when there's a 3-bet behind you. The best you can hope for is:

a) someone after you 3-bets with a middle pair, forcing UTG to face two bets cold, thus clearing up your outs;

b) UTG is on AJ or AQ and your outs are good, and you've cleaned up outs against a better K in late position.

Do these happen with enough frequency that it makes it profitable to raise in this position, rather than fold? You've got 4 people acting after you . . .

Gawks

[ThomasPHoolery]

fat chicks dude, fat chicks... I'm really, really up in the air here on the flop.... The only way your play can work is with the 3 bet behind. I don't think you're able to buy ANY equity with this raise otherwise. So Gawkes calculations based around needing to know the likelyhood of getting 3 bet behind stands. To me, it really does come down to how likely you think it is that you will get a protection raise behind. If you think it's likely enough for you to get the odds you need (and you must factor in the call of the 3 bet into that), then sure, do it. I'm too lazy to do the math right now, but I think it's a fold. And you know I've never been accused of being a weak-tight bitch.

oh, and you play good poker.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand puts me so far out of my comfort zone...

[/ QUOTE ]

And closer to (pause, key music) the learning zone.