this hand made no sense; i am a fish

thanks for the long analysis, i do get what your saying... but like i said, i still believe folding TP at 6m is suicide.

seems really weird to check, with the intention of raising... then it coming back for one bet and your best 2 options are call or fold.

why do you think utg is a maniac here?
he bets the flop with 2 overcards with decent position and good fold equity for the rest of the hand. then calls correctly on the turn with his gutshot. its also a great play because it can cause AK and AJ from pfr to fold thus clearing outs....

i think the only place he messed up was the river, where he hoped i had a busted draw with an ace in it and realised raising was the only way he could possibly win the hand. (note: he had nowhere near the odds to make this play, im not suggesting that he did)

[Aaron_]

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thanks for the long analysis, i do get what your saying... but like i said, i still believe folding TP at 6m is suicide.

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If you had a read on UTG, I agree that it's an easy call, and maybe even a raise. I'm probably under-counting my outs for .5/1 6m, but you have a lot of things working against you in this hand: bad position (and less options), bad kicker, no redraws, few outs if you're behind, no reads. For me, the pot got a lot harder to stay in after UTG bets into PFR. How likely is it that he doesn't have you beat after betting into the PFR (assuming, of course, no read)? From what you've said, it's almost a certain call. But how likely are you to call 7:1 on the turn UI? Are you still betting out on the turn?

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seems really weird to check, with the intention of raising... then it coming back for one bet and your best 2 options are call or fold.

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UTG betting wasn't optimal, but when you're UTG on the flop with top pair, a check-raise is pretty standard. The key here is that the pot is so big. If it were only four SBs to the flop, betting out is correct because you give overcards and weak five out draws only 5 to 1. Call and fold became my options when UTG unexpectedly bet and likely had us beat (we easily call and maybe raise if we have the "maniac" read on him, of course). It might not be as likely as I think it is that this line has you beat - what do you think?


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why do you think utg is a maniac here?
he bets the flop with 2 overcards with decent position and good fold equity for the rest of the hand. then calls correctly on the turn with his gutshot. its also a great play because it can cause AK and AJ from pfr to fold thus clearing outs....

i think the only place he messed up was the river, where he hoped i had a busted draw with an ace in it and realised raising was the only way he could possibly win the hand. (note: he had nowhere near the odds to make this play, im not suggesting that he did)

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If not maniac, then at least overly aggressive, right? Players betting overcards into the PFR that think they're getting flop equity either don't care that the pot is this big, or don't realize that the pot is too big to make such a bold play. On the river, he expects you to forfeit 11 bets for 1??? This guy has got to be at least mildly retarded [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thanks for the awesome post - I learned a lot

[bottomset]

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no reads cause its ub.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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see they don't let you watch the other players at UB, it gives the good players an unfair advantage [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

that or our OP is a lazy PT/PA only for reads player