Do you lay this down?

[cornell2005]

well this thread has been beaten to death, but ill quickly post my thoughts

most are talking about only the turn fold. but the turn min-raise/fold combo probably reveals the largest gap in understanding. im assuming you justtified your turn min raise as a raise for information. (its certainly not a value raise, since 1. you folded to his push 2. a vlaue raise should be larger.) very rarely in nl is an information raise correct, and definently not in this situation. one reason is that hes in a fold or push situation, where you were min raising hoping he would flat call, and tip his hand. the most obvoius reason is that you should never fold this hand on the turn, and since this min raise would be aimed (incorrectly) at leaving yourself room to fold, the min raise should never be used here. bla. this reply sucked. time to hit the pubs

[BeavisChrist]

Thanks everyone for your analysis - it's been really helpful. I honestly had no idea how horrible this play was.

Again, not that I'm justifying it, but the min reraise on the turn wasn't thought out. I was caught off guard by his turn bet (I figured his check-raise on the flop was for info and he'd slow his hand down). I had already planned on tossing in a $100 bet and when he bet $100 I raised $100 without really thinking about why. Had I stopped for just a second I would have pushed in there. It's the typical "no heart on turn make him pay for draw" type reraise. Should have been... could have been... I screwed up.

Thanks again guys.

[SoBeDude]

Chance I lay down a set here? No Chance.

Times someone pushes at me with an inferior hand: Priceless.

And I don't know what you think you're proving by showing a big laydown. This is only going to make it harder and harder for you to keep winning. Once your opponents know you can be pushed off a big hand, then you're opening yourself up to have people taking shots at you all the time.

Never EVER show a big laydown. It only hurts you. If you think otherwise for even a split second, you're kidding yourself.

If you have any desire to move to a bigger NL game in the future, quit showing. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, you can show a bluff from time to time, IN THE RIGHT SITUATION. But don't ever show uncalled hands or folds. EVER.

I just today came back from 2 weeks at the Borgata in AC. Playing NL almost every day I never had a losing session. My biggest advantage over the field was my ability to read my opponents. Every time they showed a hand I learned more about them: how they play, how they bet, how they act when weak and/or strong. Don't give information out to guys like me. We'll use it against you.

-Scott

[KillerWombat]

There is a very similar post from about 2 weeks back by DrChong who was in a very similar situation for larger stakes that you might find helpful. I suspect that you were detered by the stakes, let me put it to you this way, had you had divided the stakes by 10, would you have pushed your $ in with the set?

KillerWombat.

[nicky g]

All the people who are saying it's a bad fold because he action indicates he had KJ, or you know it's a bluff when he does this or that, or whatever are missing the point. Those tips might be helpful for handreading skills, but by far and away the most important reason this is a bad fold is that you've put in so much money compared to the amount left to call. It isn;t time to be making reads any more; if you;ve got that much money in already the only way you can fold is with a total bluff or terribly weak hand. How on earth can you think its reasonable to put in 300 and then fold for another 280 on the same round? Really, really horrible.

[BeavisChrist]

[ QUOTE ]
Never EVER show a big laydown. It only hurts you. If you think otherwise for even a split second, you're kidding yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great advice.

[ QUOTE ]
I just today came back from 2 weeks at the Borgata in AC. Playing NL almost every day I never had a losing session. My biggest advantage over the field was my ability to read my opponents. Every time they showed a hand I learned more about them: how they play, how they bet, how they act when weak and/or strong. Don't give information out to guys like me. We'll use it against you.

[/ QUOTE ]

More great advice.

I rarely show hands like this - don't know why I did here.

For as bad a player as I might be, there are players in this game far worse. I've played eight sessions of $100 max buyin and am up $3400. Had one break-even session, the rest averaging almost $500 wins.

[BeavisChrist]

[ QUOTE ]
suspect that you were detered by the stakes

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good guess - but not totally accurate. I let myself think about this hand way too much instead of being decisive. My mind was telling me "hey, it took you a long time to build up this stack, don't blow it on one hand." Stupid, backwards thinking for a poker player. I know, I know.

[srblan]

The only reason that I mentioned that it might not be true for all new players is that I had one specific incident where the guy was staring me down, and he really had it. It was very surprising to me. He may have been doing it as a counter-tell, and if so, he did a good job!

[SoBeDude]

I rarely show hands like this - don't know why I did here.

Human Nature I think. We've all done it. This is a simple discipline issue that gets easier over time, once you KNOW it is only detrimental.

I remember when it was drilled in to me what a bad idea showing a fold is. 30-60 at the Bellaio. In this particular hand, my opponent, good solid and aggressive, raised me on the turn. Board was Q-high and I had KK. I knew 1 pair was behind so I mucked face up. his eyes widened as he saw my hand.

For the rest of the night, any time he and I were in a hand he raised me on the turn. It made my life a nightmare as his aggression left me with no idea where I was in the hand. Sometimes I was ahead, sometimes I was behind. But not knowing where I was at made playing against him very tough. It also meant I had to pay him off every time I had a semblance of a hand as I knew he was taking shots at me. Rough night.

Congrats on your winning at the NL tables. I hope you can maintain it.

-Scott

[OnEyedJaCks]

set over set seems to come up more than what most people think especially if u play to pay the bills
i've been on both sides of it like prolly 15 times total but still if u lay down bottom set u better have a realy good read on your opponent or lay it down if you are risking a lot of chips in a tourny
ps someone laid down bottom set to me once when i had middle set i couldn't beleive it but thanks to him he told me what i did so hopefully i took that tell out but he was a great player
pss HELLMUTH even thou he is an [censored] is still in the top 3 poker players