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#31
12-02-2005, 05:10 PM
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Re: 200 NL
I tend to just muck in these situations on the flop. If a rock comes out betting big after limp calling a raise, I assume he hit a set. I always try to isolate the weaker players not play big pots with set miners (unless of course I have middle set or better).
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#32
12-02-2005, 05:11 PM
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Re: 200 NL
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What is your plan now that hero invested another $35 in the pot on the flop? If you are folding here then you just spewed $35 on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] i don't think it's spewed. if i call on the flop, it's with a plan to fold/call/raise if he leads again or bet/check if he checks. we don't have enough information to make folding more attractive to me than calling. by calling and letting villain act on the turn we're getting more information that will hopefully make it possible for us to make the best decision. also i disagree that he fires a second barrel the majority of the time, i think it's about 50/50 between him betting and checking. btw, his turn overbet makes me think his hand is weaker rather than stronger. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with all of this. The only way a set plays like this is if he is a bad multi tabler who just shovels money in with a set, disregarding flop texture and relative position, and just hoping his opponents are bad enough to pay him off. But when 15/5 guys play hands real fast, they are generally trying to push you out with a draw, or a strong but not great hand. I'd be very tempted to look up the turn bet. If he bet a reasonable amount I'd be much more likely to drop it. [/ QUOTE ] I think this helps explain some my points about the flop play. Now you are actually making a (convincing)case for hero calling off his stack with TPTK here even though the board is basically unchanged. If you raise the flop and get pushed you are probably beat and saved yourself half the stack you are about to call on the dry turn. Maybe villain is a bluffing fool and hero snaps it off or maybe he is a multitabler who has no read on hero and figures he's just another donk who can't let go of AK. Tough decision which would much easier with a raise on the flop (again, folding is a viable flop option).
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#35
12-02-2005, 05:18 PM
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Re: 200 NL
[ QUOTE ]
When you raise the flop to $90 or a $100 I almost guarantee the push is coming. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] When you call the flop I almost guarantee another bet is coming. [/ QUOTE ] Both statements are correct. Can you see why? (I've always wanted to say that)
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#38
12-02-2005, 05:23 PM
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Re: 200 NL
I guess I don't understand what draw the multitabler is on. If someone could elucidate me I would be grateful. I'm assuming that he isn't calling raises with QJo so this leaves four combinations of QJs (maybe) or three combinations of 44 and the occasional TT or AA. I think at best this is even money and tight multitablers at 200NL in my experience aren't very sophisticated.
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#39
12-02-2005, 05:28 PM
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Re: 200 NL
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to just muck in these situations on the flop. If a rock comes out betting big after limp calling a raise, I assume he hit a set. I always try to isolate the weaker players not play big pots with set miners (unless of course I have middle set or better). [/ QUOTE ] With this board why would you assume a set? Just because someone leads with calling a heavy raise into you does not mean a set. Ed S.
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#40
12-02-2005, 05:28 PM
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Re: 200 NL
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I don't understand what draw the multitabler is on. If someone could elucidate me I would be grateful. I'm assuming that he isn't calling raises with QJo so this leaves four combinations of QJs (maybe) or three combinations of 44 and the occasional TT or AA. I think at best this is even money and tight multitablers at 200NL in my experience aren't very sophisticated. [/ QUOTE ] You aren't missing anything. I think (and most posters too I believe) the correct line is to fold the flop without a better read. What we are bickering over is, if you decide to continue in the hand, what is your next move and how often is TPTK good here.
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