AJo and KQo UTG

[pokerjo22]

I also like to mix up my play with KQo and AJo, so I thought I'd just respond as best I can to a few of your comments

[ QUOTE ]

I could not disagree more. First of all, if I see someone at the table open-raising UTG with this type of hand I am going to three-bet them to death every chance I get.

[/ QUOTE ]

If AJo is there lowest raising hand, they'll probably appreciate all the action you'll be giving them.

[ QUOTE ]

And I wouldn't assume that you're going to push what you call the weaker aces off their hands by betting when an ace hits the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but a checkraise would exert a lot of pressure on them.

[ QUOTE ]

Limping in EP is even worse. If you're going to play this hand at least try to narrow the field a bit by raising. You talk about creating a big multi-way pot with a hand that doesn't play well multi-way. You have no draw except for the remote chance of a Broadway straight. You don't have a pair to make a set with. Ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish with this hand before you get involved with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you limp in and four or five other players also limp in then I'd agree that's not good. But at 15/30 and up that's rarely the case. You typically get a couple of limpers and the blinds, if it's going to be unraised. Then you're in a good position to isolate the blinds if they hit a piece of the flop and bet, or check-raise a late position players bluff.

I guess I haven't really settled on a way to play KQo and AJo UTG, but IMHO folding is the worst of the three options, not limping.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
what is the EV/hand of calling ajo and kqo all else equal?

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Open-limping resulted in a +0.04 BB/hand profit for AJo and a +0.03 BB/hand profit for KQo.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is the EV/hand of calling ajo and kqo all else equal?

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Open-limping resulted in a +0.04 BB/hand profit for AJo and a +0.03 BB/hand profit for KQo.

[/ QUOTE ]

ty nate.

you rule.

-Barron

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
No way joe. There are some games where there are enough very solid players who aren't going to be making the mistakes the lower limit players make...which will make it a -EV proposition I think. There aren't going to be the stupid cold-calls etc. It has nothing to do with comfort (at least in my case).

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand what you are saying. We are getting out of context, no matter what limit, there are games you fold it/raise it, etc. Table selection, regardless of limit, changes how the hand is played.

However, since Guido question is general, my statement stands.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I think some of the value of a hand comes from the limit you play. You will get payed of a lot more at the lower limits. That doesn't have to mean that you shouldn't be playing in that game. It might just need a little change of strategy...

Peace,

Guido

[/ QUOTE ]

Game selection changes the value, not the limit.

[shmahappens]

Um, the difference between raising UTG+1 instead of UTG? That's like people who say 'I'll raise 66, but not 55 GOOD GOD NEVER!!'
Personally I'm more inclined to raise KQ than AJ as when you're dominated after flopping top pair, it's easier to get away from the K or Q than the A. However I'm sure a better postflop player would be able to get better results from this hand, but while I'm learning I try and keep it simple, making it easy on myself :-D

[DpR]

In addition to the comments already stated, which imo indicate that raising is slightly better than calling the hands UTG (I think mostly due to blind stealing), I think the larger value is gained from raising these hands becasue they increase the number of hands you raise UTG - thus increasing your win rate with the monsters. Its gets you more action when you have AA, KK, etc. IMO that is the real value to this play and w/o this portion of the value, is not worth it from an EV/Sd perspective.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]

I could not disagree more. First of all, if I see someone at the table open-raising UTG with this type of hand I am going to three-bet them to death every chance I get.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



If AJo is there lowest raising hand, they'll probably appreciate all the action you'll be giving them

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I appreciate it. This is one reason I raise these hands in this spot.

Go ahead and 3 bet me to death. With the money Ill make on my average raising hand in this spot, in comparison to the likely 3 betting hand that is implied in the above quote, I will afford a very nice casket.

b

[Moyer]

Has anyone asked Ed why he recommends limping w/ these hands?

Could ATs & KJs be put in the same category as these?

[Peter_rus]

[ QUOTE ]
Um, the difference between raising UTG+1 instead of UTG? That's like people who say 'I'll raise 66, but not 55 GOOD GOD NEVER!!

[/ QUOTE ]

For any hand the difference is in probability to face better hand. It's 3% more probability to be dominated with AJ or KQ when you're UTG in compare to UTG+1. If 3% doesn't seem meaningfull to you - just think about difference between A5s and A5o - it's also 3%.

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I'm more inclined to raise KQ than AJ as when you're dominated after flopping top pair, it's easier to get away from the K or Q than the A.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not get away with any of this holdings.

Though KQ is worse than AJ because he has no SD value (you cannot split with AJ on Axxxx board and with AK on 2277x board which happens around 5% of time) and more: with pair of kings or queens you're afraid of an ace which occasionally fall on flop or later streets and this fact reduce your winnings.