|
|
#31
11-13-2005, 04:37 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: AKs.
As the tension mounds, I thought I'd say these discussions are what makes poker fun and interesting...there's always lots to think about and different ways for hands to be played [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
|
|
#32
11-13-2005, 04:38 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AKs.
[ QUOTE ]
I find it interesting that all the reasons you give for NOT raising the flop would seem to dictate NOT betting the turn, which you did for some reason. Especially considering that a hand like KJ is a 10:1 dog now. [/ QUOTE ] I'm really not sure how you aren't getting this yet. To be brief, I bet the turn because our opponent checked and signaled weakness. With a hand such as KJo or something, yes, he's a pretty big dog. But giving a free card is giving him a free shot at cracking my hand, a definite no no. On the flop it was different, he lead into a big field and a PFR, his hand strength was unknown to me, but I still had TPTK. Folding there is too weak, raising is too aggro. Like I said, I think it's better to call the flop and evaluate the turn. I did that and he check-minraised me. I think he has AQ or 99. If he had AQ, my call on the flop was alright given the circumstances, he was an 11:1 dog, no huge harm in not raising there. If he had 99, excellent, I didn't raise a hand that had me crushed. I have position, I decided to slow down on the flop and utilize it on the turn. [ QUOTE ] Like I said, I would expect that the bet is intended to freeze me up when he has a hand like QJ and doesn't want to call a big bet. Notice that you are neither way ahead of nor way behind QJ. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but again, I do not see QJ leading here. He should expect to get raised by me, not only called. A 6xBB preflop raiser should have a very strong hand, especially on this board. I would say QJo would check-call. Again, just matters of opinion. Anyways, I obviously folded. I'm reasonably sure he had 99.
|
|
#34
11-13-2005, 04:40 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AKs.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I find it interesting that all the reasons you give for NOT raising the flop would seem to dictate NOT betting the turn, which you did for some reason. Especially considering that a hand like KJ is a 10:1 dog now. [/ QUOTE ] I'm really not sure how you aren't getting this yet. To be brief, I bet the turn because our opponent checked and signaled weakness. With a hand such as KJo or something, yes, he's a pretty big dog. But giving a free card is giving him a free shot at cracking my hand, a definite no no. On the flop it was different, he lead into a big field and a PFR, his hand strength was unknown to me, but I still had TPTK. Folding there is too weak, raising is too aggro. Like I said, I think it's better to call the flop and evaluate the turn. I did that and he check-minraised me. I think he has AQ or 99. If he had AQ, my call on the flop was alright given the circumstances, he was an 11:1 dog, no huge harm in not raising there. If he had 99, excellent, I didn't raise a hand that had me crushed. I have position, I decided to slow down on the flop and utilize it on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] A free shot at cracking your hand? Are you afraid he'll river a set of deuces?
|
|
#35
11-13-2005, 04:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AKs.
[ QUOTE ]
A free shot at cracking your hand? Are you afraid he'll river a set of deuces? [/ QUOTE ] I don't even know what the [censored] this means. All I was saying is that giving a free card in this spot is ALWAYS wrong. He has checked and told me I have the best hand. Checking here gives him infinite odds. Even if he's a 8:1 dog, giving a free card when he's TELLING ME he is weak is wrong. I have to charge him something.
|
|
#37
11-13-2005, 04:46 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AKs.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A free shot at cracking your hand? Are you afraid he'll river a set of deuces? [/ QUOTE ] I don't even know what the [censored] this means. All I was saying is that giving a free card in this spot is ALWAYS wrong. He has checked and told me I have the best hand. Checking here gives him infinite odds. Even if he's a 8:1 dog, giving a free card when he's TELLING ME he is weak is wrong. I have to charge him something. [/ QUOTE ] then why aren't you raising the flop? I think the difference in actions between the flop and the turn is no good.
|
|
#38
11-13-2005, 04:47 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AKs.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A free shot at cracking your hand? Are you afraid he'll river a set of deuces? [/ QUOTE ] I don't even know what the [censored] this means. All I was saying is that giving a free card in this spot is ALWAYS wrong. He has checked and told me I have the best hand. Checking here gives him infinite odds. Even if he's a 8:1 dog, giving a free card when he's TELLING ME he is weak is wrong. I have to charge him something. [/ QUOTE ] then why aren't you raising the flop? I think the difference in actions between the flop and the turn is no good. [/ QUOTE ] Which is exactly my point. He's so worried about playing a medium sized pot in a marginal situation, so he just calls. Then one of the WORST cards hits, and now all of the sudden he wants to "protect" his hand.
|
|
#39
11-13-2005, 04:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AKs.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I lose less when behind when I just raise the flop. If the guys comes over the top for all his chips I fold. If he calls, I'm checking the turn and then probably folding to any reasonable river value bet. I don't want to get into the spot that you're in where I'm calling half-pot, half-pot, half-pot all the way down. [/ QUOTE ] I don't like this. I feel you win alot less by folding out his worse hands. By checking the turn you are inducing a river bet from worse hands, but assume only a better hand stayed from your flop reraise and fold to a river bet. [/ QUOTE ] So basically if everyone checks we should be checking the flop behind? Right? I mean we are only inducing worse hands to fold. That's bad right? [/ QUOTE ] No. Lets not be stupid here. A 1/3 I probably PSR, is it right to do? Maybe. Think about it. A 1/3 bet is either a weak holding or lock hand (QJ, K10, KJ or KQ in most cases). Thus it's a WA/WB situation, as opposed to being checked to where we are ahead most times and either want a call when we bet or a fold, as its unlikely to have a free card make an opponent a second best hand. We are probably ahead most times, but a reraise folds out worse hands, whereas calling and checking the turn induces a raise or call on the river when you are best.
|
|
#40
11-13-2005, 04:52 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: AKs.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I lose less when behind when I just raise the flop. If the guys comes over the top for all his chips I fold. If he calls, I'm checking the turn and then probably folding to any reasonable river value bet. I don't want to get into the spot that you're in where I'm calling half-pot, half-pot, half-pot all the way down. [/ QUOTE ] I don't like this. I feel you win alot less by folding out his worse hands. By checking the turn you are inducing a river bet from worse hands, but assume only a better hand stayed from your flop reraise and fold to a river bet. [/ QUOTE ] So basically if everyone checks we should be checking the flop behind? Right? I mean we are only inducing worse hands to fold. That's bad right? [/ QUOTE ] No. Lets not be stupid here. A 1/3 I probably PSR, is it right to do? Maybe. Think about it. A 1/3 bet is either a weak holding or lock hand (QJ, K10, KJ or KQ in most cases). Thus it's a WA/WB situation, as opposed to being checked to where we are ahead most times and either want a call when we bet or a fold, as its unlikely to have a free card make an opponent a second best hand. We are probably ahead most times, but a reraise folds out worse hands, whereas calling and checking the turn induces a raise or call on the river when you are best. Please use applicable explanations rather than invalid exagerations, it's for the benefit of everyone. [/ QUOTE ] Are we way ahead of QJ?
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
