Liberal Christianity

[PairTheBoard]

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Pair the Board will try to refute you, EVEN THOUGH HE AGREES WITH YOU. He's got some kind of prejudice against people who assert their position too arrogantly. (Sort of like what he ascribes to the Catholic Church regarding Galileo.) The formal name for his condition is Andy Foxitis.

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sorry pair....not at all trying to be arrogant or dismissive at all. ive never tried to spin anything or make any crazy assertions. i just had to giggle a little after reading one of yur posts..."i was impressed with pope john II's statement after studying the galileo affair." now im not trying to insult the popes statement or anything like that. i just think its funny that the pope who just recently died gave that statement and that, depending on the specific day he issued it there could have actually been men in space. i just found it somewhat amusing that anyone would truly be impressed by it. i mean do you think this actualy cleared anything up for anybody. i know nasa didnt care.

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chrisnice,

I don't accept Sklansky's characterization of me. What I tend to object to - and I've told this to David - is what I percieve to be "in the box" type thinking when there is a lot going on outside the box. Such thinking can be arrogant or dismissive but not necessarily. It is the unbalanced, narrow, and unfair nature of such thinking I object to. I am not even arguing against the ideas from in the box so much as saying look, there's more to the picture. For your ideas to be robust they need to reflect the other side of the story. How many times have you heard one person's description of a conflict she was in with somebody else and wonder how on earth the other person could have been such a villian? Until you talk to the other person and get her side of the story.

Yes, I was impressed with John Paul II's side of the story and I was especially impressed with his statements about how the Catholic Church is not in conflict with science. A refreshing stance considering that of American Fundamentalists these days.

The topic of this thread does not imply a need to defend the Catholic Church for its past mistakes, although if I'm to get into a discussion of its mistakes I would like to hear its side of the story. The topic of this thread is to present something that seems to be out of the box thinking for a lot people. That is that there is a thing called Liberal Christianity. It is not a radical fringe but a vital part of many Mainline Protestant denominations, and elements of it can even be found in possibly the most Mainline of all Christian bodies, the Roman Catholic Church.

I guess I will say what I want to say regardless of what Sklansky thinks about it, and I hope you will too.

Sincere regards,

PairTheBoard

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I don't accept Sklansky's characterization of me. What I tend to object to - and I've told this to David - is what I percieve to be "in the box" type thinking when there is a lot going on outside the box. Such thinking can be arrogant or dismissive but not necessarily. It is the unbalanced, narrow, and unfair nature of such thinking I object to. I am not even arguing against the ideas from in the box so much as saying look, there's more to the picture. For your ideas to be robust they need to reflect the other side of the story. How many times have you heard one person's description of a conflict she was in with somebody else and wonder how on earth the other person could have been such a villian? Until you talk to the other person and get her side of the story.

Yes, I was impressed with John Paul II's side of the story and I was especially impressed with his statements about how the Catholic Church is not in conflict with science. A refreshing stance considering that of American Fundamentalists these days.

The topic of this thread does not imply a need to defend the Catholic Church for its past mistakes, although if I'm to get into a discussion of its mistakes I would like to hear its side of the story. The topic of this thread is to present something that seems to be out of the box thinking for a lot people. That is that there is a thing called Liberal Christianity. It is not a radical fringe but a vital part of many Mainline Protestant denominations, and elements of it can even be found in possibly the most Mainline of all Christian bodies, the Roman Catholic Church.

I guess I will say what I want to say regardless of what Sklansky thinks about it, and I hope you will too.

Sincere regards,

PairTheBoard

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well i dont know why u think im coming at this from inside the box or with too narrow a perspective or whatever. i think that science(finding knowable truths) as well as spirituality, religon or whatever should both play a role in many peoples lives and society at large. i merely have a problem when either one tries to impede on the others turf. regretfully it is allmost exclusivly religon which oversteps its bounds. i was merely commenting on the specific galileo incident which i think is illustrative of my general problem with science and religon mixing.

paul phillips wrote about intelligent desigen in his blog the other day and a couple sentances on the science vs religon debate i thought were interesting...."The details change but the battle is always the same. One group wants to find the truth and one group wants to protect their idea of the truth, and these approaches will forever be irreconcilable." liberal christianity i think falls in between somewhere.

getting both sides of the story and having a balanced view of everything is all fine and dandy but sometimes its merely an attempt to justify 2 irreconcilable beliefs.

[PairTheBoard]

Paul Phillips can have his opinion and you can have yours. My opinion is that John Paul II made a good case for the Catholic Church not having irreconcilable differences with Science. And I think Liberal Christianity in general is quite comfortable with science.

It looks to me like your mind was already made up before you entered this discussion. You insist on the idea that Christainity is a Monolith which is in irreconcillable conflict with science, has historically impeded science, and continues in that pursuit. I've given you evidence which I think shows a bigger picture. What you do with that evidence is up to you.

PairTheBoard

[BluffTHIS!]

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And I think Liberal Christianity in general is quite comfortable with science.

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Quite true. What they aren't comfortable with is many of the core doctrines of Christianity or even the specific denomination they belong to. As a Catholic I am always amused at the liberals in our church who don't accept so many of the beliefs that define catholocism. The funny thing is they are trying to re-invent the wheel. It's all been done before in various protestant denominations. If they want more liberal with "high-church" liturgy they should run along to the episcopal church. If they want less such worship practices, then they should try the presbyterian church. But of course the reason they don't, and stay in the catholic church instead trying to change it, is that if they leave they will no longer be the "progressive" media darlings they like to be, but just another protestant denomination. In fact, conservative catholics and the more conservative members of evangelical protestant churches often have more in common on matters of morals in particular and also core christian beliefs, than with liberal members of their own churches.

[David Sklansky]

"But of course the reason they don't, and stay in the catholic church instead trying to change it, is that if they leave they will no longer be the "progressive" media darlings they like to be,"

I always did kinda figure this about Pair The Board. Lest why would he always be trying to catch me in a mistake? He want to be on the cover of the National Enquirer one way or the other.

[PairTheBoard]

BluffTHIS --
"But of course the reason they don't, and stay in the catholic church instead trying to change it, is that if they leave they will no longer be the "progressive" media darlings they like to be,"

I think there are plenty of ordinary Liberal Christians in the Catholic Church who never get close to the media. Naturally there are some who do. I suspect the reason they stay in the Catholic Church and seek to change it rather than go someplace else is that they believe in the Church and in its capacity to change. The Church gave evidence of this capacity to change in the Second Vatican Council.


DS --
"I always did kinda figure this about Pair The Board. Lest why would he always be trying to catch me in a mistake? He want to be on the cover of the National Enquirer one way or the other. "

Figured what out about me David? That I'm a Liberal Christian Catholic seeking media attention? That I want to be on the cover of National Enquirer? That I'm pursuing this goal by trying to catch the great David Sklansky in a mistake on the 2+2 message boards? Like THAT would make the Headline News? Riiiight.

PairTheBoard