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#32
06-23-2005, 12:47 AM
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Re: Play this hand from the button? Results
[ QUOTE ]
OK...it's a 932 flop, with a minbet and a call to you in a decent pot and no indication anyone caught any of that. It's also a 5+1 which means that you will get a turn free card when you raise roughly 98% of the time with a 2% margin of error. Oh, and you have 12 outs to the nuts (65 doesn't count, thx) and 3 aces that probably count for at least 2 more. This is a clear raise (I'd make it about 150) and not at all close*, because on top of everything else it'll be enough to fold everything up to a 9 and quite possibly some nines. It's hands like these you have to learn to play strong to succeed higher. Holla. *eh, it might be close if you knew they'd minbet the turn too. You don't, so you raise. [/ QUOTE ] Fine! I'll ask the questions all you guys aren't asking (and should be). Adanthar, how do you play if... 1) Your t150 raise is reraised to t300 (or more) before the turn card. It's just you and villain, others folded. What's your line? Or, 2) Let's say your t150 raise is called by one player. The turn is a blank, and villain leads into you for 1/2-2/3 pot. What's your line? 
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#33
06-23-2005, 01:17 AM
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Re: Play this hand from the button?
I like calling better than raising. If somebody has a lower flush draw, you are keeping them in to pay you off when the flush hits. You said the table is passive. So, somebody could easily be slowplaying a set, but is unlikely to raise with trash, so you should be able to draw cheaply until the river.
If they are slowplaying a set, let them give you a cheap draw and make a mistake by allowing you to complete the flush and burn them on the river if the board doesn't pair. If you raise, one of two things happens. Either everybody folds and you win a small pot - This is OK, but you should get paid off much more if the flush comes in. Second case is they reraise eliminating all your other callers and forcing you to either fold losing your raise chips, or else call taking a 4-1 shot on hitting the flush. Much better to not be put to that choice. On the river, bet pot size or slightly more. Any flush will call, and the set may think you are trying to buy the pot from the scare cards. At $5+1, I have no doubts if you went all-in at the end, half the time some idiot would still call even with top pair or two pair.
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#34
06-23-2005, 09:19 AM
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Re: Play this hand from the button?
[ QUOTE ]
I like calling better than raising. If somebody has a lower flush draw, you are keeping them in to pay you off when the flush hits. You said the table is passive. So, somebody could easily be slowplaying a set, but is unlikely to raise with trash, so you should be able to draw cheaply until the river. If they are slowplaying a set, let them give you a cheap draw and make a mistake by allowing you to complete the flush and burn them on the river if the board doesn't pair. If you raise, one of two things happens. Either everybody folds and you win a small pot - This is OK, but you should get paid off much more if the flush comes in. Second case is they reraise eliminating all your other callers and forcing you to either fold losing your raise chips, or else call taking a 4-1 shot on hitting the flush. Much better to not be put to that choice. On the river, bet pot size or slightly more. Any flush will call, and the set may think you are trying to buy the pot from the scare cards. At $5+1, I have no doubts if you went all-in at the end, half the time some idiot would still call even with top pair or two pair. [/ QUOTE ] If we agree that this is a $5+1, then your thinking here is skewed. These players play with level 1 thinking. That means, "I have a hand." They will not be concerned with the flush on the board. And if they were concerned, betting should disguise. What's wrong with winning a small pot? As stated earlier, disguise your hand by betting. If you play weak, and then strong when the flush completes, this is more of a tell, no? But if you play strong, and then play strong, this looks like you're trying to buy. Generally, building the pot into your flush draw is more of a payoff, than "waiting" for your flush to hit (although, I am already contradicting myself). Finally, I don't think lower levels are smart enough to slow play a set (unless they just are too docile to bet, then they are genius). IMO, they would probably overbet pots. You are giving these players far too much credit. In the end, you likely have better than 4:1 odds on the turn and the river. That includes flush draw, gutshot straight draw, and the ace (overcard). That's about 15 total undiscounted outs. That's about 2:1 (as I said, undiscounted).
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#35
06-23-2005, 09:22 AM
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Re: Play this hand from the button? Results
[ QUOTE ]
Fine! I'll ask the questions all you guys aren't asking (and should be). Adanthar, how do you play if... 1) Your t150 raise is reraised to t300 (or more) before the turn card. It's just you and villain, others folded. What's your line? Or, 2) Let's say your t150 raise is called by one player. The turn is a blank, and villain leads into you for 1/2-2/3 pot. What's your line? [/ QUOTE ] In a $5 neither of those things should come up*, but #1's an easy push and #2 depends on the player and the bet amount. In a $5 I may just fold; in a $109 I can push semibluff. It depends. *it is far more likely that he will bet t30 again on the turn, lol.
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