Gigabet hand in WPT event.

[woodguy]

Does this look like scared $$$?

The hand:



Date / Time: 2005-10-19 18:42:00
Title: Darrell Dicken Uses the Button
Log: David Oppenheim raised the pot preflop to $5,000 from early position. Eric Weiner called in late position and Darrell Dicken called on the button. The flop came Qd-9d-5h, and the action checked around. The turn brought the 4h, and Oppenheim fired out $14,000 in chips. Weiner quickly called, and the action was on Dicken. Dicken thought for a few moments, examining the board and eventually deciding to call. The river brought the 6h. Oppenheim checked, as did Weiner, and the action was back on Dicken who announced, "I'm all in," and started to move all of his chips forward. It was nearly a $100,000 bet, and that was enought to send Oppenheim into the tank. After a long period of deliberation, Oppenheim opted to fold. Weiner then started to talk, indicating that he thought Dicken was on a total bluff. "I'm sick," Weiner repeatedly said, before mucking his hand. Was it a position bet or was Dicken holding the nuts? You have to pay to find out.

Giga's hand and thoughts:

I had 72o, David actually bet 6k on the flop also. I was originally intending on representing diamonds, but the hearts got there instead, so I just had to make it incredibly unprofitable for them to call.

BTW, David spent 15 minutes in the tank, no one called for time, cause everyone at the table understood what an awful predicament I had put him in. He obviously had a big hand, but also understood that to make the call, he could never be wrong. Whole time he was in the tank, I was staring at the felt, with this mantra streaming through my mind. "pleasedontcallpleasedontcallpleasedontcallpleased ontcallpleasedontcallpleasedontcallpleasedontcallp leasedontcallpleasedon....)

Unless Giga posted that specifically for other competitors in this tourney to see...

Regards,
Woodguy

[SossMan]

I'm in the BB w/ J4. Folded to an aggressive SB who completes. I check my option.

We both have 120k and the blinds are 600-1200.

Flop is JT3.

He makes a pot sized bet of 2700. I raise to 7k straight w/ my top pair no kicker. He calls. I put him on a OESD draw, a jack, a ten, or garbage with the intention of moving me off the hand on the turn.

Pot is ~16k.

Turn is a 4h putting two hearts on board.

He bets 12k into me. I think my hand is definitely good now since it's hard for me to put him on a set w/ the lack of preflop raise (though JJ/TT is possible, but unlikely due to the largish flop bet), but I don't want to lose top pair, so I raise it to 30k with the intention of probably checking behind on the river.

He folds, he probably had some sort of T or a gutshot.

[Exitonly]

i'm liking it. I think gigabet out thought himself, MLG's line of calling and leading the river, looks like a good one.

[chuddo]

i was going to do the same soss. nice.

i think the line he took + the fold is not good at all, for many of the reasons already mentioned in this thread and the other.

gigabets reply back that when he thinks he has the best hand he wants to get full value from it, or lose, is not proper justification in the least.

sometimes certain situations happen to lower the value of your hand, and you just need to accept that, and aim for getting that maximum value, even if it is lower than normal due to circumstances.

not getting to showdown in this hand is large mistake.

he was either thoroughly outlayed by dan harrington in this hand, or he overthought and outplayed himself like a donkey.

i find it funny how people are saying "Look at how much enormous strength dan is showing on the turn!".

do you not think a world class player is more than aware of this, and is likely the reason for it if he is making a play?

dan could be making this raise for a variety of reasons:

1-the aforementioned pulling a big move to fold out at least TP

2-he may think gigabet is simply making a move on him with a flop bluff-call and turn lead, and can easily make him fold air.

3-he thinks there is a chance he has the best hand, but does not want to call the turn and be faced with a very tough river decision after giving up the momentum on the turn, so he raises now to make the river play much easier.

besides all of that, it is not good to discount that if dan does indeed have 333 or 444, that he is going to always raise this turn. surely a certain % of the time he is going to call giga's turn lead and wait until the river.

fold no good.

[z32fanatic]

I'm not that good, but if I flop top two, headsup, in an unraised pot when there are no straight or flush possibilities, i'm getting all the money in if I can. I think you're ahead here 90% of the time and 10% of the time he has 33. I would also disregard Dan saying he had a worse hand than top 2, he would never tell if he had 33 there. I can't imagine folding top 2 here.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm liking it. I think gigabet out thought himself, MLG's line of calling and leading the river, looks like a good one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would reraise allin. If Harrington has something, he may call, and he is probably behind.

Alternatively, you could flat call and then check call or checkraise the river.

Of course, I wouldn't have played any part of this hand the way Gigabet did, probably because I am not as good a player.

Anyone put him on Qh9h?? With his stack size and position isn't this a reasonable range and play? Especially if he feels he is against a very aggressive player?? Isn't this the same Dan that tried to push Ivey off a 9 set with 73?

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
I would also disregard Dan saying he had a worse hand than top 2, he would never tell if he had 33 there.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. What Harrington says he had means nothing. He could have been ahead or been on a stone bluff. He also may not have believed Gigabet had top two.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the BB w/ J4. Folded to an aggressive SB who completes. I check my option.

We both have 120k and the blinds are 600-1200.

Flop is JT3.

He makes a pot sized bet of 2700. I raise to 7k straight w/ my top pair no kicker. He calls. I put him on a OESD draw, a jack, a ten, or garbage with the intention of moving me off the hand on the turn.

Pot is ~16k.

Turn is a 4h putting two hearts on board.

He bets 12k into me. I think my hand is definitely good now since it's hard for me to put him on a set w/ the lack of preflop raise (though JJ/TT is possible, but unlikely due to the largish flop bet), but I don't want to lose top pair, so I raise it to 30k with the intention of probably checking behind on the river.

He folds, he probably had some sort of T or a gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like raising the turn here with J4, but it's close. Any hand less than Jacks and Fours and I really hate raising the turn. (The reason J4 I only don't like a little is that J3 is a very real possibility for SB if he comes back over the top) The reasons I don't like it are:
<ul type="square"> [*]It makes the next action all in, and if SB pushes you have to call, but you really don't like it.[*]Most hands you are beating are laying down here if you raise, but may fire on the river if you call. SB likely has 5 outs or less if you are ahead (though I guess Jx [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is possible if you don't have the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for 12 outs).[/list]
In other words, I don't think you get paid off by many hands you are beating since you are saying you are willing to play for all your chips here with your bet when you could have gotten to a showdown without putting a lot more chips in. OTOH, you get stacked by most better hands. If you had abosolutely nothing, I can see making this bet as a bluff against a good thinking opponent, and if you had a really big hand like a set I think you can make it and trap another good hand (and against a good thinking opponent like Gigabet, both of these or neither of these need to be in your repetoir). J4 is close to being big, but I really only see J3 or better continuing here if you raise. So if the only hands SB could have that continue are JT, J3, J4, or 33 (given the action), you are not in good shape against that range. OTOH, sb will likely fire again or at least pay off a river value bet with a hand like T3 (and maybe something like J8, but I am not so certain a hand like J8 leads this turn).

I am not sure how you rule out a set here. If you have a good read that there is no way sb has a set, then raising the turn in your scenario seems better, but I still think you are looking at 50% equity if you get called.

Also, the raise on the turn prices out draws, but offers a nice price for made hands. I really like the size of the turn raise. I could be wrong but I really think this is a very strong hand or a bluff. I'm repeating myself here, but I just think there is so much value in calling down with one (top after this action) pair and weaker two pair hands here that Dan is not raising those. Personally, I don't like raising JT in his spot since there just are not that many free cards that scare me, and position here rules (i.e. I will likely get another bet out of villain either by snapping off his bluff or value betting if he checks; if he is bluffing and gives up, oh well, but I think his most likely lines on the river are bet (fold) or check call if you check behind on the turn).

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]


1-the aforementioned pulling a big move to fold out at least TP

2-he may think gigabet is simply making a move on him with a flop bluff-call and turn lead, and can easily make him fold air.

3-he thinks there is a chance he has the best hand, but does not want to call the turn and be faced with a very tough river decision after giving up the momentum on the turn, so he raises now to make the river play much easier.



[/ QUOTE ]
1,2 - I agree that Dan can be on complete air here. I think he has a very strong hand or nothing.

3 - He won't be facing a tough river decision. If he gets bet into on the river, it will most likey be in the neighborhood of how much his raise is for since the pot will be ~40K and stacks ~100K. That is why the bet looks so strong: Dan can play a pot that does not cripple him if he loses but elects to escalate. Dan and Giga understand this which is why it can be pure air, but I would think it is a big hand a lot more often, maybe 3 times as often (maybe more).