Drugs and alcohol

[bholdr]

i admit that the metaphor was thin at best, and i wasn't really trying to formulate an argument in response to your post. but what the heck, i'll give it a shot:

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If I want to sit on my couch and smoke heroin on Saturdays, how is this a danger to anyone?

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first of all it is a danger to you. if you smoke too much you will die (unlike weed and much more likely than alcohol). the money you spend on the heroin supports and encourages violent crime (to a far greater degree than weed and alcohol). the addictive nature of the drug trends to make it's users unproductive drains on society (moreso than weed and alcohol). and most heroin users inject the drug, facilitating the spread of AIDS, herpes, etc (unlike weed and alcohol, though i suppose an argument could be made that alcohol contributes greatly to the spread of STDs). It is mostly a difference of degree and not of kind, so it's hard to construct a logical, definitive argument seperating alcohol (and weed) from other drugs.

[natedogg]

I'm not sure if these are your own positions or just possible positions. Here's some comments.

first of all it is a danger to you. if you smoke too much you will die (unlike weed and much more likely than alcohol).

Why should it be illegal for me to do something that is a danger to myself? Yes heroin is a greater danger to my health than weed. So what?

the money you spend on the heroin supports and encourages violent crime (to a far greater degree than weed and alcohol).

This is a circular argument. Drug money funds crime because drugs are contraband. To say that drugs should be illegal
because drug money funds crime is circular. It is precisely because they are illegal that crime benefits from it.

the addictive nature of the drug trends to make it's users unproductive drains on society
Are we going criminalize every activity that might possibly lead someone to become a loser and a drain on society?
I nominate california's public schools.

natedogg

[Gamblor]

You can enjoy one beer, feel positive psychological effects, and still be lucid enough to operate a motor vehicle or perform in the workplace. How many executives have one beer or one drink during a business lunch or in their office?

You can't enjoy one joint, or do one line, or shoot one dose of heroin, and still be lucid enough to perform well in the workplace or contribute in any meaningful way to society. Much less operate a motor vehicle (weed I'll concede does not significantly impair your ability to drive).

That is why alcohol is legal, and all of those drugs are not.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I love them both.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
You can enjoy one beer, feel positive psychological effects, and still be lucid enough to operate a motor vehicle or perform in the workplace. How many executives have one beer or one drink during a business lunch or in their office?

You can't enjoy one joint, or do one line, or shoot one dose of heroin, and still be lucid enough to perform well in the workplace or contribute in any meaningful way to society. Much less operate a motor vehicle (weed I'll concede does not significantly impair your ability to drive).

That is why alcohol is legal, and all of those drugs are not.

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such a simple answer, you'd think everyone would have realized it when i gave it the first time [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't enjoy one joint, or do one line, or shoot one dose of heroin, and still be lucid enough to perform well in the workplace or contribute in any meaningful way to society.

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speak for yourself. maybe you misunderstand the nature / effects of those drugs. granted, heroin is pretty much incapatating. but cocaine, rather than reduce one's lucidity, is a stimulant that increses capacity to work / perform. the same goes for methamphetimines, etc. and yes, people CAN smoke just a little pot, feel positive psychological effects and not be incapacitated, most smokers do just that. if you disaggree, i'd like some of whatever you're smoking. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Il_Mostro]

Nope. Alcohol is legal 'cause it's been around for a long long time. Hard drugs are not legal because trying to legalize them would wrec havoc to the economy. Weed, well, not sure about that one, I suppose it's a way to keep people think hard drugs are illegal because they are dangerous.

[JoeC]

History.

Our Puritan forefathers drank (sometimes in moderation, sometimes otherwise) a good deal, yet did not use other illegal drugs to any appreciable degree.

This Puritan influence still has a greater effect on America than any of us realize...obviously, nobody's actually using this to defend legalization of alcohol, but I suspect this is the actual reason.

[daryn]

we realize it here in boston. so many places closed on sunday, and up until recently you couldn't even buy booze on sunday.

[smoore]

You are scientifically intoxicated from your very first "alcohol equivilant". One beer, shot, or wine.

There are many functioning potheads in the workforce. On a construction site I will take a pothead over a drunk any day of the week. The drunk is liable to hurt himself or others, the pothead isn't, from my experience. Drunks also do crappy work.

My gateway drugs were refined sugar, caffine, and nicotine in that order. Then I went on a tear once I was about 14yrs old, starting with what we could get. Booze from the liquor cabinet in one kids house and roaches from the ashtrays in another's. Got into hallucinogens around 16... funny thing is, we couldn't even buy weed until we found that LSD dealer. Found coke and meth when I was about 19 and started hanging out with party girls. BTW kids, stay away from that poison. I hate the high of opiates, so I never got into them.

Now I drink booze and puff a little weed, but I guess everyone mellows as they grow up.

Drug prohibition is unenforceable. Anyone who disagrees with this just needs to research some drug usage, import and incarceration statistics for the past three decades. You'll notice something interesting around the "War on Drugs" inception... usage and import stats remain fairly constant but incarceration spikes. Hard.

Now, I'm a paranoid kinda guy, but it seems to me that there is only one reason for the "War on Drugs": business. Private incarceration is a lucrative business. Approximately every week there is a new jail or prison built in the US. The US incarcerates some 700 Americans per 100,000... more than any other country in the world (that we know of). America has more prisoners in one state (California) than do the nations of France, Great Britain, Japan, Germany, Holland, and Singapore... combined. In 1970 there were fewer than 200,000 Americans in prison. Now there are over 2,000,000. We are not growing more violent at the same rate, not by a long shot. Fewer than a third of our incarcerated citizens are there for violent crimes and at least 400,000 are there because of nonviolent drug offenses.

In closing, the "War on Drugs" is really a war on drug users, private prisons are big business and our criminal justice system is better at producing criminals than justice.

&lt;rant off&gt;