John Feeney's AQ test on Party

[GreywolfNYC]

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I doubt that anyone who makes a habit of playing 88 or QJs UTG is a winning player. Not saying that it isn't common in online games, just that these people can't be long-term winners.

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hi. long-time winner here. i play 88 and QJs utg every time.

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Okay guys. I'm getting beat up pretty good over this remark and perhaps I invited that. Let me try and soften this up a bit. These hands have cost me more money than I've won with them when I played them in EP. Same for Ax suited. This is just my experience and yours may very well be different. I have since really tightened up my starting hand requirements in EP and I've stopped open-limping altogether. But I also have to say that I am primarily a B&M player and a lot of you guys are more qualified to talk about what works and doesn't work in the online mid-limit games.
I think this has turned into a really interesting thread.

[NMcNasty]

This is an easy three-bet. Most winning players still raise with hands like KQ and AJ from early position (although I don't recommend this), and thats all you need for 3 betting with AQ to be profitable, especially when you consider the power 3 betting has in the AQ vs AQ mirror match. When both players miss the board, the 3-better will take down the pot more often than not.

[Buckshot]

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Yea if i remember correctly, the time he says to fold is vs an player with similar UTG raising standards as himself.


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Although I worded it poorly this is pretty much what I meant when I said "you assume a player can play until that player dictates otherwise", i.e. he's not a complete idiot or reckless in his UTG requirements.

~stephen

[Lawrence Ng]

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What do you do with AQ off in MP and on button when an unknown UTG raises.

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Fold

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With known players, what Pokertracker criteria determine your course of action?

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PFR % > 5, I will 3 bet sometimes, cold call sometimes depending on their VPIP and agro factor.

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And what is your usual course of action against a UTG raiser who appears to be a winning player (I am leaving the description general on purpose).

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Against a winning player like you skp it's an easy 3 bet. There are too many hands in your range from 77-AA, KQ offsuit or suited and up to make AQ offsuit an easy 3 bet.

Lawrence

[skp]

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Against a winning player like you skp it's an easy 3 bet. There are too many hands in your range from 77-AA, KQ offsuit or suited and up to make AQ offsuit an easy 3 bet.


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Damn.

[RunningSixes]

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Against a winning player like you skp it's an easy 3 bet. There are too many hands in your range from 77-AA, KQ offsuit or suited and up to make AQ offsuit an easy 3 bet.

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Most winning players in the party 15/30 have utg raising standards of something like AA-99, AKo-AJo, AKs-AJs, KQo, KQs. AQo does not have positive equity against these hands, althoug being in position does help. Still i would not call this an "easy 3 bet" :

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 52.3790 % [ 00.46 00.07 ] { AA-99, AKs-AJs, KQs, AKo-AJo, KQo }
Hand 2: 47.6210 % [ 00.41 00.07 ] { AQo }

[Vaftrudner]

Same for Ax suited.

This could mean a lot. /v

[SinCityGuy]

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Most winning players in the party 15/30 have utg raising standards of something like AA-99, AKo-AJo, AKs-AJs, KQo, KQs. AQo does not have positive equity against these hands, althoug being in position does help. Still i would not call this an "easy 3 bet" :

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 52.3790 % [ 00.46 00.07 ] { AA-99, AKs-AJs, KQs, AKo-AJo, KQo }
Hand 2: 47.6210 % [ 00.41 00.07 ] { AQo }

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Ding, ding. We have a winner.

[hogger]

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There are lots of winning players who just about always openraise UTG. And they do it with hands like 88 and even QJs that may be too good to fold but not right to just limp in with given game conditions. So, they raise.
Your kidding right?

I think that's what the other guy meant: Yes, UTG is a winning player but he raises with a lot of hands. Ergo, 3 betting him with AQ even though he is a good player makes sense.

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I doubt that anyone who makes a habit of playing 88 or QJs UTG is a winning player. Not saying that it isn't common in online games, just that these people can't be long-term winners.

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[hogger]

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Most winning players in the party 15/30 have utg raising standards of something like AA-99, AKo-AJo, AKs-AJs, KQo, KQs. AQo does not have positive equity against these hands, althoug being in position does help. Still i would not call this an "easy 3 bet" :

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 52.3790 % [ 00.46 00.07 ] { AA-99, AKs-AJs, KQs, AKo-AJo, KQo }
Hand 2: 47.6210 % [ 00.41 00.07 ] { AQo }

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Ding, ding. We have a winner.

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What about the dead money in the blinds? 10% of the average pot? Add that in!