KK, top set and I'm bet into by EP...wait for turn to raise? - Page 4

AlmightyJay · #31 10-06-2005, 05:40 PM

Calling here would be slowplaying, not waiting for the turn for protection. There aren't many cards that will hurt you on the turn, so that's not what you would be doing.

That said, I would raise. No one's folding.

MN_Mime · #32 10-06-2005, 05:42 PM

Whenever I flop quad aces and slowplay, the competition folds the turn with no more (or less) action than a flop bet [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

In the OP's hand, what happens to his action if EP leads again on a blank, a new bettor opens on a str8/flush card, or a scary card like an A or K falls? I think all the backdoor draws wither and fish (even with correct odds) will fold to their gut that they are behind 'somebody' and/or 'everybody'. The combined chance of these action-killing events are more than 50% and I'm certain you're losing bets.

When you're trying to build a pot because the pot is small, that's one thing. Trying to build humungous pot without adding a little gas to the flame is FPS.

#33 10-06-2005, 05:44 PM

Hmm, at first I was thinking Raise for value. But I'm thinking the BB has a set of 7s or 8s. Would he 3-bet? If so what are the odds the other players will come in for two more bets and for your cap? Interesting question. I could go both ways, but I'm leaning towards a value bet, hoping for the BB to 3-bet and push out any straight draws.

Felipe · #34 10-06-2005, 05:46 PM

the worst is when you slowplay, and so is someone else! You're REALLY missing out on bets. I've been telling myself again and again, quit slowplaying at the lowlimits! its just not profitable enough (or worthwhile)

lautzutao · #35 10-06-2005, 07:13 PM

Wow, this is insane...why are people thinking this is a "wait until the turn so I can increase my equity raise" like I'm reading here?

I'm waiting for pure greed here. My equity here is astounding. I almost can't lose, and almost everyone is probably drawing dead. Nobody thinks "Boy, it would be great if the BB bets his K again on the turn, I could make a shitload of money." Or his set of 8's, or whatever he's WAY behind with here.

I need an EV calculation here and have no idea of doing it. Can any math people whip one up?

I need to know if raising the flop is more EV than waiting for the turn to raise.

milesdyson · #36 10-06-2005, 07:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I need to know if raising the flop is more EV than waiting for the turn to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
brilliant.

Entity · #37 10-06-2005, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
People seem to have forgotten that slowplaying is a viable way to extract more value from particularly strong hands. I guess everyone's waiting for that day they flop quad aces in a .04BB pot with the aggressor on their immediate right so they can immediately post it on here and impress their internet friends. I wait for the turn, and if you like money and kicking babies as much as I do, you wait too.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're wrong. I raise the flop.

Rob

Shillx · #38 10-06-2005, 07:28 PM

You might as well just start playing craps if you think calling is better then raising.

#39 10-06-2005, 07:31 PM

The variables are almost endless with so many people in the pot.

You arent sure villain will bet into 4 people again. You arent sure everybody will call villains turn bet. You arent sure everybody will call your turn raise. You arent sure to have the best hand on the turn. On the flop however you are almost sure to get 2BB and a lot more if villain 3-bets. You could make a case for slow playing if there were fewer players and a smaller pot. I wouldnt do it now however.

VoraciousReader · #40 10-06-2005, 07:41 PM

I think this is a classic "bird in the hand" scenario.

If there were two acting before you and two acting behind you, I think maybe waiting for the turn would make sense. You get the 2 extra overcalls that might fold when faced with 2 this street, plus you get to raise the turn after (hopefully) a bettor and at least one caller.

But it's almost certain you will be losing customers on the turn...at almost any online table. Whereas right now, you have the whole table psychologically committed to seeing the turn, and can pretty much guarantee 4 more SBs going in right now. You don't have to worry about losing the people who didn't hit their bd draws, smashing your monitor when the BB doesn't bet again, or losing the "see the turn for any price" folks.

And, if you didn't forget to sacrifice your goat to the poker gods this week, BB may 3-bet his top pair, and most of the field will call 2 after putting money in this street. Or he may stop-n-go and you'll still get to raise the turn.