20-40 Pocket Jacks hand - Page 4

Ulysses · #31 06-23-2004, 08:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Getting a K or Q to fold the turn. Hands like Q6 or K5 suited that these knuckleheads like to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, even in the most knucklehead-ish of games, I don't think you're going to run into Q6 or K5 here enough times to make that a reason to raise. Even if he's one of those "raise anything I play" guys, how many times is he going to have Q6 or K5 (or hands in that family) in this spot? Not many.

Ulysses · #32 06-23-2004, 08:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He Just picked a good moment to make a play, don't you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I think he picked a horrible moment. Most players are far less likely to fold hands like JJ when he 3-bets with two Aces on the board than they are when he bets w/ just one on the board.

As I said in my other post, I think the chances that both:

a) the turn raiser doesn't have an Ace
and
b) the turn raiser will fold to a 3-bet

are true is slim enough that his 3-bet is not very good, and definitely not brilliant.

bernie · #33 06-23-2004, 08:46 PM

I would've had a very hard time calling the turn 3 bet. I love your raise though. I dont put him on an A here.

Which is probably why i shouldn't fold. But it is a ballsy 3 bet. I dont run into many players capable of pulling that one.

I dont see why he'd bet the river though. You've given no indication of folding. If you were going to fold, it would've been on the turn, not the river.

b

bernie · #34 06-23-2004, 08:55 PM

He would be more convincing of having an A if he was active on the flop. Like a c/r, then bet out on the turn.

If he checks the flop with an A, he'd likely c/r the turn not bet out.

b

elysium · #35 06-23-2004, 09:04 PM

hi noo
the problem there is that now, after you raise, his call of your raise gives him even better odds than you to spike. that, combined with all the reasons keeping you within the math line, and he has an even easier call than you. KK and QQ has every hand that you may have beat, beaten, plus JJ. these aggressives call. you are not getting correct odds to attempt a fold.

Noo Yawk · #36 06-23-2004, 09:05 PM

Hi Bernie,

He bet the river as a last ditch attempt to get me to fold.
He's a friend and when were in a hand together, which is rare, we go at it pretty hard!

Noo Yawk · #37 06-23-2004, 09:09 PM

Hi Elysium,
Odds aside, I think my raise gave him an opportunity to play me off my hand, wheras my normal line would be to call. I just wanted the 3rd party out and maybe got carried away here. I always maintained that I was most likely ahead.

Noo Yawk · #38 06-23-2004, 09:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He would be more convincing of having an A if he was active on the flop. Like a c/r, then bet out on the turn.

If he checks the flop with an A, he'd likely c/r the turn not bet out.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. So do you think that raising the turn is correct if I belive I'm ahead of everything but a set of 5's,6's Or K's or Q's, if there is any chance he'll fold K's or Q's based on this particular hand?

Nightwish · #39 06-23-2004, 09:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Bernie,

He bet the river as a last ditch attempt to get me to fold.
He's a friend and when were in a hand together, which is rare, we go at it pretty hard!

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, this is critical information! I can't believe you left it out! Friends pull all sorts of bizarre moves on each other when they're heads up. You're essentially telling me that he would not usually make this kind of move, which pretty much proves the point that everyone else is trying to make to you.

Noo Yawk · #40 06-23-2004, 09:24 PM

Nightwish, I left it out because it's not a friends playing bizzare against eachother hand. It's 2 guys trying to outplay each other trying to win a pot. were friends in the room in that we repect each others play. Not buddies trying to get crazy. I left this out because there is no point to the post with it in. Your just going to have to trust me that this wasn't the case. Ignore it, as it's not relevant to the hand.