Changes that Need to be Made in No Limit

[wegs the wegs]

First of all get off I'm going to say that I voted for the "You're a fish" selection and I really do disagree with all your points on some ground.

Second of all, you say that the No-Limit players are all grown up and have become better at laying down hands. Well thats great for those players who entered the game of poker in the Moneymaker era, but what about the brand new players that are joining as we speak... and even more when this year's WSOP airs? These players are still going to be pathetic and pay off the players with their top pair, 7 kicker, on a board of J 8 2 when the opponent is holding AA, KK, QQ, or AJ. The fish are out there and the ponds are constantly being stocked. Get off of Prima, that site is awful.

Third, if you're calling pot sized bets constantly on the turn with flush draws you're going to lose money, period. Pot odds say so. Implied odds are nice, but I found that to be successful over the long run pot odds have to come first when they are screaming don't call.

Fourth, if you don't want to raise preflop with one of the top 4 hands in poker, that's your choice.

Fifth, yeah slowplaying works in someplaces, others it doesn't. Just don't complain when you get outdrawn.

Sixth, yeah this was a waste of time.

[DaveduFresne]

You: "No, on that hand he makes the classic mistake of not putting money in on the turn."

Please, reading comprehension!

Me: "I disagree with villains play on the turn (not raising) and also calling the overbet on the river,"

[Izenra]

And now here is the thing that screw up your thing :

IT DEPENDS

I'll only take the AK one. If you don't raise preflop you are losing some bet. And you let them draw cheaply preflop.

Although, if you are vs a maniac, this could be completly different. You wouldn't need to raise since he will and if you hit you just bet it hard and take his stack.

People who says they agree completly with you are losing money.

again
IT DEPENDS

Nice stuff though.

[DaveduFresne]

Well Im not going to try defend myself from every attack on here, but as far as that hand goes, its a big mistake to get hung up on a flush when the board pairs.

The only time I'd play like villain on the river is if I was significantly tilted.

If someone can't lay down a hand thats obviously beaten, then no, they probably shouldn't slowplay anything less than the overfull or quads.

[sourbeaver]

What I think AK has to do against non-maniacs, perhaps slightly aggro opponents, is to raise just enough to drive out clown hands and semi-connectors, but small enough to convince AQ, KQ and perhaps smaller aces, that they might be ahead here. This way, you collect the most out of these hands, yet you do not commit yourself strongly enough to be losing your stack to sets and other sneakies when you flop TPTK.

Plus you build your raising repertoire better than if you stop raising AK altogether (I've been there...).

In the end, AK takes money from hands that are "sharing" with it (i.e. if you don't connect, you shouldn't give money away, and you're most likely not making any because you'll get folds out of other hands that didn't hit), unless a donk can't let go of second pair or chases too far, but that happens less and less as you move up. Small PPs and suited connectors are definitely taking EV from AK if played correctly when hero can't drop his raised-pot-TPTK.

AK does build TPTK or top two more than any other type of hands. Since one doesn't want to commit his stack too often with TPTK (of course, there are special circumstances), then raising a bit less will let dominated hands in (AQ, KQ..) while not juicing a pot right off the bat that hero might have trouble letting go of once he makes TPTK and suddenly gets raised on the turn after 2 pot bets...

[edge]

Oh, come on. Why is the advice on this forum always dead set against slowplaying? Leading with a set rarely works. If someone leads into me on a A94 2-flush flop and I have AK as the raiser, I'm certainly not raising. I'm calling him down unless I have a read that he's bad. I'm probably not raising with anything there.

There's nothing wrong with slowplaying a set vs an overpair. You have him drawing to two outs most of the time. If you get outdrawn, deal with it, but why alert him to the fact that you have him beat right away? Yes, there are bad places to slowplay, but slowplaying is definitely far from universally bad.

[BZ_Zorro]

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If someone leads into me on a A94 2-flush flop and I have AK as the raiser, I'm certainly not raising. I'm calling him down unless I have a read that he's bad.

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Thanks for reminding me why it's a good idea to bet out a flush draw.

[punter11235]

Hello,

My opinion is that you should do everything other way around than your advice.

Best wishes

[poboy]

FYP
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I believe over the past year, as the newer players (like myself) have gotten some seasoning in No Limit Hold'em, some plays that formerly worked no longer do work against them , but luckily there are new fish signing up everyday . I want to make a list of some of these and see whether other players agree or disagree.

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1. Do draw to flushes, especially when your hand has something else going for it( and play it aggressively)

You may not have "pot odds" for your flush, but the implied odds are still there . People are still more than happy to pay you off despite the obvious flush. .

2. DO raise AK preflop (religiously) since it is likely the best hand and it is likely people will call with dominated hands. . In an unraised pot, I will have no idea where I stand and will have to make very difficult decisions. Where as in a raised pot I will often take it down uncontested or win a nice pot off someone with a worse kicker.

3. Aces or Kings are not an all in hand post flop. (Unless you've gotten a minimum of twenty percent of your stack in preflop). Obvious exceptions with this one, but most mediocre or better players are not going to gamble their whole stack with a hand that can't beat a pocket pair, even a big one. Ok this one is a no brainer

4. Unless you're a bluffer, don't bother going all in, unless the pot size dictates it. This is still not the best way to maximize your EV with the best hand most of the time . People still don't automatically assume all in meant bluff, maybe someday but for now we will still have to play poker.

5. Don't call a raise from a decent or better player with just top pair. Either reraise or fold here (unless you have a flush draw or straight draw to go with your top pair.)
I hate to be redundant but this is just common sense, Everyone knows not to play with the sharks

6. Slowplay less . Slowplaying always has been and is still a bad idea , you'd be losing bets that people would be calling virtually drawing dead. If someone has Aces or Kings or even worse , and you flop a set, you can almost always lead into them and expect a reraise all in, you will sometimes lose your action but this is still the best way to get paid off with 100xBB stacks

7. Don't reraise all in with pocket Kings someone who has threebet you preflop. Look for that King on the flop and increase your chances of taking someone with pocket Queens chips. This I agree with



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[edge]

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Thanks for reminding me why it's a good idea to bet out a flush draw.

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Although it's a good idea to bet out or checkraise a flush draw, betting out with the flush draw against an overpair means you get, at best, the same price to draw as if you check/called. Some players will raise an overpair on the flop, some will not. Maybe it's just better to know how your opponent usually plays after raising? Against some opponents, leading a set is better, but not against all players.

There are some metagame advantages to betting out, since the river is a simple bet that may be more likely to be called than a check/call, check/call, bet out on river 3-flush line, but don't fool yourself into thinking you're getting a better price.