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#31
09-01-2005, 05:46 PM
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Re: An interesting sitituation .....
The distinction that others are making is that Hold'em is a 7 card game. Our hand can only be best if it is the winner >50% when all the cards are out. Until then, everyone is drawing, either to cards that make their hand or to blanks that don't make the opponents hand. If there is a better chance that a card that wrecks our hand comes than that it doesn't, our hand cannot be best.
If we were playing Hold'em with no turn or river card (weird game), then yes our hand would be best. That is where the confusion is coming from. WiteKnite 
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#32
09-01-2005, 05:54 PM
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Re: An interesting sitituation .....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Hero isn't drawing... he has the best hand right now. [/ QUOTE ] if we have 30% chance of winning we clearly don't have the best hand now. [/ QUOTE ] Um, wrong. A-high beats 9-high. Hero has the best hand. Adam [/ QUOTE ] If the game was only 2 streets, yes the hero would have the best hand. Which hand would you rather have in this spot? I'm just guessing that you'd take the 9 high hand all day long. b
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#33
09-01-2005, 05:54 PM
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Re: An interesting sitituation .....
[ QUOTE ]
but poker is more then math. sometimes you have to use common sense and judgment. easy fold, don't be stupid. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with einbert. Wow. Just wow. The logic that CSUF tries to use to argue for folding is just incredible.
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#34
09-01-2005, 09:51 PM
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Re: An interesting sitituation .....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Hero isn't drawing... he has the best hand right now. [/ QUOTE ] if we have 30% chance of winning we clearly don't have the best hand now. [/ QUOTE ] Don't be a nit; the meaning of the statement is clear. [/ QUOTE ] it's clear but also wrong we are definitely drawing to safe outs here. it's an important distinction, I think. IMO the person I was responding to was being a nit. and don't call me a nit [/ QUOTE ] Seriously, you're being a nit.
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#35
09-02-2005, 01:28 AM
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Re: An interesting sitituation .....
I know others have responded to this with similiar comments but I still feel like weighing in.
[ QUOTE ] Let me be clear: "Best hand" = winning hand = MHIG = currently, my hand would beat his hand if the showdown were now. [/ QUOTE ] This is irrelevent to the point it should never be mentioned again. We are not showing down our hands now. In Hold'em before the river both people are always drawing to the best hand (unless someone is drawing dead). This is an important concept. It not one person is ahead and one is drawing, you are both drawing. The person who is ahead is the person who has more cards in the deck that will help them win the pot (if there is more than 1 card left its more complicated but you know what im getting at). In this case it is clearly the 7h8h or whatever it was. This is not debateable.
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#36
09-02-2005, 08:52 AM
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Re: An interesting sitituation .....
[ QUOTE ]
i fold. this ain't worth the money to fool around with. it's a tiny azz pot. there's a difference between having the best hand and having the best chance to win a hand. villian has a full 23 outs, thats half the fuking deck. hero has to dodge 23. villian has 2 chances to catch one of 23 cards. yes based on a purley mathmathically point of view, hero should call. his odds are 1.05 to 1 and he is getting 5.1 to 1 on his money. but poker is more then math. sometimes you have to use common sense and judgment. easy fold, don't be stupid. [/ QUOTE ] what revolting advice. how can someone who has read this board for 2 years possibly fail to understand why this is the most straightforward call ever. there is NO ambiguity here whatsoever. the correct play can (and has been) mathmatically proven, yet you still fail to understand sucgh a simp concept. i dont mean to be so harsh, but wow. you really should never respond to a strategy post again untill you at least have the slightest clue what you are talking about. its crap like this that really lowers the standard of a forum.
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#38
09-02-2005, 10:44 AM
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Re: An interesting sitituation .....
nice post. easy call on this street.
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#39
09-02-2005, 01:09 PM
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Re: An interesting sitituation .....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Um, wrong. A-high beats 9-high. Hero has the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] I guess we disagree on what "best" means. [/ QUOTE ] Let me be clear: "Best hand" = winning hand = MHIG = currently, my hand would beat his hand if the showdown were now. Adam [/ QUOTE ] but the showdown isn't now, he has two streets to improve. if you have the 'best hand' on the flop, you should be willing to go all in, and that's clearly not the case here. this is straight out of SSHE, where Ed wants to blur the distinction between 'draws' and 'made hands' because it's all about equity.
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#40
09-02-2005, 01:42 PM
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Re: An interesting sitituation .....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Hero isn't drawing... he has the best hand right now. [/ QUOTE ] if we have 30% chance of winning we clearly don't have the best hand now. [/ QUOTE ] Don't be a nit; the meaning of the statement is clear. [/ QUOTE ] it's clear but also wrong we are definitely drawing to safe outs here. it's an important distinction, I think. IMO the person I was responding to was being a nit. and don't call me a nit [/ QUOTE ] Seriously, you're being a nit. [/ QUOTE ] no he's not. This has been discussed before ad nauseum on here in relation to the Matusow vs Raymer hand from the 2004 world series. No matter what way you try to twist it, the 98 is the best hand. 98 isnt drawing here, A2 is. Those who can't see that have a fundamental misunderstanding of the game.
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