My Nemesis - AJo

[James282]

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i thought we were all under the assumption that a PP is a donkey who will never fold a pair and is pretty much incapable of intelligent play.

i really feel that the posts on here are results oriented. maybe i am missing a key element in this hand and have some of the conformed theories on this forum confused. if this was any other combination of hand, you would all be screaming to raise for value.

now, if you want to say that you should simply call down after you are bet into on the turn, i can certainly understand that. raising the turn is a much more controversal play, but i simply cannot understand how you guys could advocate smooth calling this flop. it seems entirely inconsistent with every other thought that runs through this forum.

you guys are all telling me that you should smooth call the flop, smooth call the turn, and smooth call the river? you dont want to raise anywhere in the hand?

What the hell is going on!

ps, i was dead on right about villain having A9. shouldnt that show that you should be raising this flop for value since you will be up against a smaller ace almost every time?

where is nate tha great when you need him?

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Are you crazy? Who implied that you shouldn't raise the turn after calling the flop? I thought it was dreadfully obvious that the reason you call the flop is because you almost definitely have the best hand and you want to get more value out of it.
-James

[Kevin J]

"i thought we were all under the assumption that a PP is a donkey who will never fold a pair and is pretty much incapable of intelligent play."

I agree there are some real idiots, but I also see some fairly sophisticated play on Party. Am I the only one? Maybe I need to practice better game selection. ??

"i really feel that the posts on here are results oriented."

Not from me, I assure you.

"it seems entirely inconsistent with every other thought that runs through this forum."

For good or bad, my thoughts are often contrary to the thoughts that run through this forum.

"you guys are all telling me that you should smooth call the flop, smooth call the turn, and smooth call the river? you dont want to raise anywhere in the hand?"

I would sometimes play the hand exactly like that. So yes.

"What the hell is going on!"

Hopefully, a productive thread that includes differing thoughts and ways this hand could've been played.

"ps, i was dead on right about villain having A9."

Yes, this is the most logical hand when he 3-bets the turn. But you won't always be right and sometimes he'll have a flush draw or some other hand you shouldn't fold to.

[James282]

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Hey MBD: I definitely agree with raising the flop (get the SB out now), but what if the SB weren't in this hand? In that case, I'm not so sure that smooth calling every street wouldn't be a viable option.

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I feel like I'm living in a crazy house. Why do you guys want the SB out now!??!?!?!?!?!?!? He is almost definitely drawing dead to runner runner, there is a minute chance he is already ahead, and also a small chance he has 2-4 outs, in which case, who gives a damn if he calls 1 bet? You get the same "value" without giving up pretty much any equity on this street. Then you get to the turn and you can get an additional small bet out of the BB donk and possibly a full BB extra from the SB if he wants to keep drawing.

Facts:
1) The SB will take one off with a small pair
2) The SB will see a showdown with an ace, allowing you to collect 2 BB on the turn.
3) He may or may not call with some crappy backdoor flush or straight draw.

The pot has 8 Small bets in it when the action gets to you on the flop. In order to make "getting the SB out now" correct, it would need to increase your equity by about 1/8 or %12. The only way that this is possible if he has a small pair and a spade, will call down with a draw to a fourflush for 2 bets on the turn, and the BB does not have a bigger spade in his hand.

I think this is a perfect spot to slowplay your fairly invulnerable holding.
-James

[Irishboy]

thank you for this response...much better than the cryptic yoda crap you were slingin earlier.

[James282]

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thank you for this response...much better than the cryptic yoda crap you were slingin earlier.

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My cryptic yoda response, if properly understood, will probably do you more good than my more detailed response.
-James

[stoxtrader]

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What do you give SB where you are afraid of him taking one off on the flop, given your pot equity against his possible holdings? Furthermore, which of these holdings will improve enough to lessen your earn by calling 1 than folding for two? Lastly, which of these holdings will he call one or 2 on the flop with, but also call two on the turn? The only really good reason I can think of to not raise the flop is that you have a reliable read that the flop bettor will freeze up on the turn.
-James


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this "cryptic yoda response" is the best post of the thread.